Was Ken vs. Tito just a huge work?

**ninjashoes** · 11-07-2009, 01:35 PM

More and more because of the way Ken Shamrock was involved in so many worked fights, the potential the fued had to make money and Tito's whole character(he was on TNA wrestling at least once as well, keep that in mind). I think the whole drama was just a bunch of fake BS.

I am not saying they didnt genuinely dislike eachother. I am not saying that the actual fights themselves were worked(if so Shamrock would have won at least one of them) but I am saying all the supposed hate was fake and they were both just interested in making millions(which they did).

Its also suspected that Kens fight with and fued with Don Frye were worked. Double leglock ending lol give me a break like that would happen in real life, one guy would just roll out eventually.

You know come to think of it the Tito fights could have been faked as well. It might have been agreed that the only way Tito would have worked a fight with Ken was if he was given the win in an easy fashion. At least one of them could have been worked anyway.

You know alot of people still think Kens fight with Franklin was a work.

Anyways I am not really saying the Tito fights were worked but all the drama and hate between them was probably a crock of shit. No way you can really hate someone that much just for flipping you off 100 years ago. Its not like Mezger and Frank didnt whoop Tito, there wasnt that big of a reason for Ken to hate him. I mean its not like Tito always beat the Lions Den is what I am saying. They had victories over him even though Frank was sorta not with the Lions Den anymore. He still at least flipped Tito's corner off for revenge after he beat Tito. My point is that Ken sorta had the last word in anyway since his brother with a similar style to his own was able to beat Tito. There was no reason to specifically wanna badly beat Tito at his age.

The fued had potential to make a shitload of cash because up until that point the Lions Den vs. Tito fued was the most badass and greatest thing to have happened in MMA.

Ken didnt take the tuf 3 coaching very seriously and from his performance didnt seem to have trained that hard and instead he took tons of roids more like a pro wrestler would.

**Beanflicker** · 11-07-2009, 02:16 PM

Definatly. Ken's just an actor.

**Capt. Kirk** · 11-07-2009, 02:45 PM

Honestly I don't know how there haven't been worked fights in the UFC. Ken/Tito and Ken/Franklin are prime examples but I'm sure with enough hindsight we could make the case for a lot more of them.

That being said what definition of work do you mean? I don't know if all the fighters were in on it. I mean fuck if a retard like Wes Sims can't keep his mouth shut about a TUF taping what if you trust someone with a worked fight and they spill the beans? There goes not only your credibility but your Fight Org right out the window.

What I saying is yes, definitely worked fights but the people who knew the outcome were prolly counted on one hand. I am willing to bet there has been scenario's like.....if it goes to the judges this guy is gonna win, or if he gets in trouble call it quick yadda yadda. There's so many different scenario's you could go through to rig a fight for someone's favor.

Personally however I think you put on a worked fight a la UFC did back in the days when they had second tier talent going up against coddled champions. Shit Liddell was a great fighter but IMO he got better AFTER he went to PRIDE and got worked by Rampage. Franklin for better AFTER he got worked by Silva two times. I guess what i'm trying to say is that when you put your champions up against talent that is not on there level and they win it might as well be a werked fight.

Shit.....to take it to the next level when you got ignorant suck ass boxing judges who understand absolutely nothing about the sport and they BLOW a championship fight like Machida/Rua THAT is a work. Why? Because when you put a ignorant sum bitch like peoples in that fight, and that situation occurs, you give the fight to the Champion based on Ignorance of judging and if you were as smart as a 5th grader you could imagine that scenario happening.

In the end it's probably naive to believe there isn't screws that get turned once in awhile......so yeah it prolly was a work but I doubt Tito knew it was. Do you really think Dana would trust that dumb ass(he did marry Jenna) with some shit like that? IF it was a work 5 people knew. Dana, The Fertetta's, Ken and Herb "Bullshit Stoppage King" Dean.

**Capt. Kirk** · 11-07-2009, 02:45 PM

double post.

**Rudy-D.F.F!!!!** · 11-07-2009, 04:08 PM

Rich vs Ken hahahaha i remember that shit..oh man!

**Sub Zero** · 11-07-2009, 05:01 PM

Why would Tito and Franklin need a work to beat Ken Shamrock? A friend of mine did go to an autograph signing with Shamrock before the Frye fight and told him that Frye was going to win and Shamrock said "Whatever, just as long as you buy the PPV".

**Vastardikai** · 11-07-2009, 05:27 PM

I am pretty sure that Dana has told people to fight a certain way (See Sherk, Sean).

I am also pretty sure that fights were made with a certain outcome in mind (See Griffin vs. Silva)

**Beanflicker** · 11-07-2009, 05:40 PM

You guys never read the post. He never said the fights were worked, just the prefight bullshit

**[AEM] TEAM420** · 11-07-2009, 06:10 PM

**Kundurp** · 11-07-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

You guys never read the post. He never said the fights were worked, just the prefight bullshit

**DiscipleDX** · 11-07-2009, 06:42 PM

The pre-fight hype is almost always a work. Most of these guys know each other and have for years. They drop in on each others camps to train and help out all the time.

If there was that much beef between them, guy would be requesting fights from management constantly. Dana would always hype fights by saying, "So and so came to me and asked me to make this fight."

I think with Shamrock/Tito that Shamrock blew up on Tito after the Metzger fight in a very public, heated moment and Dana and the boys played it up to generate fan interest. It got so much run that what started out as one flare-up became true animosity because neither guy is capable of shutting his mouth.

**aquanutz** · 11-07-2009, 07:05 PM

I have to agree based solely on the fact that Ken is a better fighter than Tito. Makes me sad to think there are fixed fights though. :(

**mg_productions** · 11-07-2009, 07:48 PM

So you're saying they are artificially building up hype before fights?!?

And they do this...to make people actually want to watch the fight?!?

Holy fucking shit grenades!I think you might be on to something!

Seriously though, if Ken Shamrock wasn't so good at building up fights,he wouldn't be...where he's at today?lol.Let me rephrase that.

If Ken wasn't so good at building hype,we wouldn't have gotten 3 fights out of the Tito thing.Honestly,did anyone expect any different type of outcome after the first 2 beat downs?Before the second fight with Tito,Ken was 3-5 since coming back from the WWF.2-5 if you count only the big org.*UFC and Pride*The loss right before the second Tito fight was to Sakuraba....by KO.I love Saku,but he isn't known for throwing bombs.

Ken bought himself more time in the UFC by hyping the Tito fued because that's all he had left at that time.And Dana drained every ounce of marketability and money he could out of the World's Most Dangerous Man.Was the hype fake?Yeah,most is,but we eat it up.It's not bad,that's what the fight world it built on.It's actually a testament to Ken that he was able to build interest and get 3 fights out of the UFC with the Tito thing after having fallen so far skill wise.

Willy Bangshit · 11-07-2009, 08:02 PM

11-07-2009, 01:35 PM	#1
ninjashoes Daniel Join Date: May 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 44,536 Points: 820,769.15 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 820,769.15 Give Points	Was Ken vs. Tito just a huge work? More and more because of the way Ken Shamrock was involved in so many worked fights, the potential the fued had to make money and Tito's whole character(he was on TNA wrestling at least once as well, keep that in mind). I think the whole drama was just a bunch of fake BS. I am not saying they didnt genuinely dislike eachother. I am not saying that the actual fights themselves were worked(if so Shamrock would have won at least one of them) but I am saying all the supposed hate was fake and they were both just interested in making millions(which they did). Its also suspected that Kens fight with and fued with Don Frye were worked. Double leglock ending lol give me a break like that would happen in real life, one guy would just roll out eventually. You know come to think of it the Tito fights could have been faked as well. It might have been agreed that the only way Tito would have worked a fight with Ken was if he was given the win in an easy fashion. At least one of them could have been worked anyway. You know alot of people still think Kens fight with Franklin was a work. Anyways I am not really saying the Tito fights were worked but all the drama and hate between them was probably a crock of shit. No way you can really hate someone that much just for flipping you off 100 years ago. Its not like Mezger and Frank didnt whoop Tito, there wasnt that big of a reason for Ken to hate him. I mean its not like Tito always beat the Lions Den is what I am saying. They had victories over him even though Frank was sorta not with the Lions Den anymore. He still at least flipped Tito's corner off for revenge after he beat Tito. My point is that Ken sorta had the last word in anyway since his brother with a similar style to his own was able to beat Tito. There was no reason to specifically wanna badly beat Tito at his age. The fued had potential to make a shitload of cash because up until that point the Lions Den vs. Tito fued was the most badass and greatest thing to have happened in MMA. Ken didnt take the tuf 3 coaching very seriously and from his performance didnt seem to have trained that hard and instead he took tons of roids more like a pro wrestler would. __________________ Buffy the Vampire Slayer is the greatest show, the greatest thing ever. "You gotta get off the ice brah" - Dog Chapman "If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do." - Angel

11-07-2009, 02:16 PM	#2
Beanflicker BIG SEXAAAY Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,121 Points: 89,342.91 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 89,342.91 Give Points	Definatly. Ken's just an actor. __________________ ^Bean bet against this guy. What a Moron "Ain't no fighters in England! Dey all BUMS!" -James "Lights Out" Toney Blackie Sherrod, talking about a heavyweight contender: “He has everything a boxer needs except speed, stamina, a punch, and ability to take punishment. In other words, he owns a pair of shorts.”

11-07-2009, 02:45 PM	#3
Capt. Kirk Dammit Bones! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: teh enterprise Posts: 1,207 Points: 2,562.54 Bank: 29,291.48 Total Points: 31,854.02 Give Points	Honestly I don't know how there haven't been worked fights in the UFC. Ken/Tito and Ken/Franklin are prime examples but I'm sure with enough hindsight we could make the case for a lot more of them. That being said what definition of work do you mean? I don't know if all the fighters were in on it. I mean fuck if a retard like Wes Sims can't keep his mouth shut about a TUF taping what if you trust someone with a worked fight and they spill the beans? There goes not only your credibility but your Fight Org right out the window. What I saying is yes, definitely worked fights but the people who knew the outcome were prolly counted on one hand. I am willing to bet there has been scenario's like.....if it goes to the judges this guy is gonna win, or if he gets in trouble call it quick yadda yadda. There's so many different scenario's you could go through to rig a fight for someone's favor. Personally however I think you put on a worked fight a la UFC did back in the days when they had second tier talent going up against coddled champions. Shit Liddell was a great fighter but IMO he got better AFTER he went to PRIDE and got worked by Rampage. Franklin for better AFTER he got worked by Silva two times. I guess what i'm trying to say is that when you put your champions up against talent that is not on there level and they win it might as well be a werked fight. Shit.....to take it to the next level when you got ignorant suck ass boxing judges who understand absolutely nothing about the sport and they BLOW a championship fight like Machida/Rua THAT is a work. Why? Because when you put a ignorant sum bitch like peoples in that fight, and that situation occurs, you give the fight to the Champion based on Ignorance of judging and if you were as smart as a 5th grader you could imagine that scenario happening. In the end it's probably naive to believe there isn't screws that get turned once in awhile......so yeah it prolly was a work but I doubt Tito knew it was. Do you really think Dana would trust that dumb ass(he did marry Jenna) with some shit like that? IF it was a work 5 people knew. Dana, The Fertetta's, Ken and Herb "Bullshit Stoppage King" Dean. __________________ ...it's the end of the world my friends, be prepared... Last edited by Capt. Kirk; 11-07-2009 at 02:50 PM.

11-07-2009, 02:45 PM	#4
Capt. Kirk Dammit Bones! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: teh enterprise Posts: 1,207 Points: 2,562.54 Bank: 29,291.48 Total Points: 31,854.02 Give Points	double post. __________________ ...it's the end of the world my friends, be prepared...

11-07-2009, 05:01 PM	#6
Sub Zero Plum Belt Sr Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: The Arctic Posts: 1,710 Points: 36,028.67 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 36,028.67 Give Points	Why would Tito and Franklin need a work to beat Ken Shamrock? A friend of mine did go to an autograph signing with Shamrock before the Frye fight and told him that Frye was going to win and Shamrock said "Whatever, just as long as you buy the PPV". __________________ 9628 I am not in a rock band, but I play Rock Band

11-07-2009, 04:08 PM	#5
Rudy-D.F.F!!!! FUCK in YOU Join Date: May 2006 Location: In my fuckin House. Posts: 12,061 Points: 133,570.36 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 133,570.36 Give Points	Rich vs Ken hahahaha i remember that shit..oh man!

11-07-2009, 05:27 PM	#7
Vastardikai Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 314 Points: 6,778.53 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 6,778.53 Give Points	I am pretty sure that Dana has told people to fight a certain way (See Sherk, Sean). I am also pretty sure that fights were made with a certain outcome in mind (See Griffin vs. Silva) __________________ "He just doesn't belong in the UFC and after his performance the other night, he should consider a new line of work." Dana White on Kalib Starnes. Rest in Peace, WWEliteXC. Tyson Griffin finishes fight at 155!

11-07-2009, 05:40 PM	#8
Beanflicker BIG SEXAAAY Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,121 Points: 89,342.91 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 89,342.91 Give Points	You guys never read the post. He never said the fights were worked, just the prefight bullshit __________________ ^Bean bet against this guy. What a Moron "Ain't no fighters in England! Dey all BUMS!" -James "Lights Out" Toney Blackie Sherrod, talking about a heavyweight contender: “He has everything a boxer needs except speed, stamina, a punch, and ability to take punishment. In other words, he owns a pair of shorts.”

11-07-2009, 06:10 PM	#9
[AEM] TEAM420 WWJD? Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Central Cali Posts: 6,572 Points: 54,189.56 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 54,189.56 Give Points	__________________ NWO FOR LIFE "....It takes more than 12 Balinese dudes with weapons to kill a California Kid" -Urijah Faber

11-07-2009, 06:42 PM	#11
DiscipleDX Eternal Font of Rage Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,475 Points: 46,479.99 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 46,479.99 Give Points	The pre-fight hype is almost always a work. Most of these guys know each other and have for years. They drop in on each others camps to train and help out all the time. If there was that much beef between them, guy would be requesting fights from management constantly. Dana would always hype fights by saying, "So and so came to me and asked me to make this fight." I think with Shamrock/Tito that Shamrock blew up on Tito after the Metzger fight in a very public, heated moment and Dana and the boys played it up to generate fan interest. It got so much run that what started out as one flare-up became true animosity because neither guy is capable of shutting his mouth. __________________ WAR PENN, WAR GSP, WAR SPIDER, WAR QUICKSAND, WAR SEFO, WAR BADR HARI, WAR RUSLAN KARAEV!!!

11-07-2009, 07:05 PM	#12
aquanutz Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 449 Points: 38,723.57 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 38,723.57 Give Points	I have to agree based solely on the fact that Ken is a better fighter than Tito. Makes me sad to think there are fixed fights though. :(

11-07-2009, 07:48 PM	#13
mg_productions Ninjabro Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,412 Points: 14,849.26 Bank: 244,759.45 Total Points: 259,608.71 Give Points	So you're saying they are artificially building up hype before fights?!? And they do this...to make people actually want to watch the fight?!? Holy fucking shit grenades!I think you might be on to something! Seriously though, if Ken Shamrock wasn't so good at building up fights,he wouldn't be...where he's at today?lol.Let me rephrase that. If Ken wasn't so good at building hype,we wouldn't have gotten 3 fights out of the Tito thing.Honestly,did anyone expect any different type of outcome after the first 2 beat downs?Before the second fight with Tito,Ken was 3-5 since coming back from the WWF.2-5 if you count only the big org.UFC and PrideThe loss right before the second Tito fight was to Sakuraba....by KO.I love Saku,but he isn't known for throwing bombs. Ken bought himself more time in the UFC by hyping the Tito fued because that's all he had left at that time.And Dana drained every ounce of marketability and money he could out of the World's Most Dangerous Man.Was the hype fake?Yeah,most is,but we eat it up.It's not bad,that's what the fight world it built on.It's actually a testament to Ken that he was able to build interest and get 3 fights out of the UFC with the Tito thing after having fallen so far skill wise. __________________ Led by its irascible president, foul-mouthed ex-aerobics instructor Dana White, the UFC has turned the blood sport into a global spectacle-Time Magazine Ninjashoes Top Ten Rankings!Blow off Sherdog! http://ninjashoes.net/ninjablog/?cat=7

11-07-2009, 08:02 PM	#14
Willy Bangshit {SAVR} Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Parts unknown Posts: 846 Points: 6,835.27 Bank: 10,395.18 Total Points: 17,230.45 Give Points	__________________ “The best engine in the world is the vagina, It can be started with one finger, is self-lubricating, takes any size piston and changes its own oil every four weeks. It is only a pity that the management system is so fuckin temperamental...”

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