Religion as social control.

[Jim]

theres many ppl that believe organised religion was created not long after Christ by rulers and their governments to use as a form of social control.

So do u think that social control was, and has, been more or less achieved by the implementation of religion into our society?

...or does the harm and conflict in our society that comes from the 'other' side of religion,[terrorist sects, holy wars,evil cults etc..]outweigh the good religion was designed for,that of course being social control?




*This thread isnt about whether or not this concept is right or wrong,its more a discussion on religion and its effectiveness[or ineffectiveness]as a form of social control.

[ninjashoes]

It depends

Theres a big difference between a few druids in the forrest trying to connect with nature and then a huge corporation like the catholic religion.

Is religion used for social control? yes

Does it have its roots in social control? No, it has more do to with ecstatic states and the question of what happens when we die.

[Jim]

But does it work?Or overall does religion cause more trouble than good?


I think it does more good than harm.At least from my position in Australia it does.

[.Limey.]

I guess religion/faith gives comfort to many but im not into it.
I think religion encourages ppl to 'not think' and become complacant,they can also lose their independance.

But overall,does the good religion does outweigh the bad?
Thats a tough one that needs some research and examination for an informed answer.
I'd be inclined to think that we are better off with religion.In the west at least.

[Bloodshot {ADR}]

theres many ppl that believe organised religion was created not long after Christ by rulers and their governments to use as a form of social control.

So do u think that social control was, and has, been more or less achieved by the implementation of religion into our society?

...or does the harm and conflict in our society that comes from the 'other' side of religion,[terrorist sects, holy wars,evil cults etc..]outweigh the good religion was designed for,that of course being social control?




*This thread isnt about whether or not this concept is right or wrong,its more a discussion on religion and its effectiveness[or ineffectiveness]as a form of social control.

Yes and no. No in the sense Religion can only affect those who believe it. But yes in the early years when the Catholic Church had so much control.

Social control is needed for individual and society alike. The moral values of Religion can't be argued. but Religions are our interpretation of God, which leaves room for bias & one sided arguements.

terrorist activities and holy wars are results of pride, greed, and many other things that come with those put into a great position of power. Corruption in ourselves is the cause for these terrible thiungs, and not the Religion itself. As war predates Religion.

Makes sense why Religion could be interpreted in the sense of lies and social control, especially with Revelations and all. I understand both sides, just my two cents.

[Jim]

A lot of good ppl i know have faith,and while they dont talk openly about it i can tell its something they hold onto dearly.Its a very personal thing with most.

Its good that believers and non-believers can post their opinions so we can get a bit of balance.There's no right or wrong answer here.

[ninjashoes]

I have faith

I have faith that the whatever forces are responsible for everything existing are basically good and its right to have hope. Thats all I need. I don't need names or specifics like jesus or allah.

[Vens]

the crusades was the bloodiest war of all time.

[ninjashoes]

the crusades was the bloodiest war of all time.

and also the most badass!

[TBA]

War is very profitable to some. Religion gives certain people power over when war happens and where it happens.

Not my whole take, just one small note.

Tithing is also nice. 10% of a person's income to the church.

[VagabondMusashi]

Even as a Christian, I have to say that this thread withour xmorte is useless.
However, for me this is how it works: I don't build my religion from the top down. I don't cramp logic within the confines of whatever metaphysics I can make myself believe in.

Off the notion of a categorical imperative I drew wa parallel to Christian ethic ( though it is not exclusively Christian), and, feeling touched by the myth, find that it best illustrates what I believe in. Metaphysics do not come into it except as maybe the flowers and fruits of a tree, which give taste and flavor to my life experience.

[Bloodshot {ADR}]

I have faith

I have faith that the whatever forces are responsible for everything existing are basically good and its right to have hope. Thats all I need. I don't need names or specifics like jesus or allah.

faith in inevitability ftw.

[nakedrear]

Everyone wants to be part of a club, especially a club that's going to get exclusive VIP passes to the most happenin' joint in the afterlife.

Who wouldn't want to part of that deal? I know I did once. The chance to feel like I was on the "winning" team, and to be able to judge and look down on others who aren't part of that? That's the American dream, and it's prevalent in everything from websites to sports teams to neighborhoods and schools...etc, etc, etc. Religion is just the big super meta version of that....it's the biggest game of "I'm better than you" that there is.

It's all selfish, and instinctually I did want a piece of that action, but I learned it doesn't make me happy, it doesn't really seem to make other people happy either...and that was the only "evidence" I needed. But while you can keep the fantasy alive it is one tantalizing motherfucker and a DYNAMITE method of social control, really top notch.

[Bloodshot {ADR}]

Everyone wants to be part of a club, especially a club that's going to get exclusive VIP passes to the most happenin' joint in the afterlife.

Who wouldn't want to part of that deal? I know I did once. The chance to feel like I was on the "winning" team, and to be able to judge and look down on others who aren't part of that? That's the American dream, and it's prevalent in everything from websites to sports teams to neighborhoods and schools...etc, etc, etc. Religion is just the big super meta version of that....it's the biggest game of "I'm better than you" that there is.

It's all selfish, and instinctually I did want a piece of that action, but I learned it doesn't make me happy, it doesn't really seem to make other people happy either...and that was the only "evidence" I needed. But while you can keep the fantasy alive it is one tantalizing motherfucker and a DYNAMITE method of social control, really top notch.

[Starflyer]

It depends

Theres a big difference between a few druids in the forrest trying to connect with nature and then a huge corporation like the catholic religion.

Is religion used for social control? yes

Does it have its roots in social control? No, it has more do to with ecstatic states and the question of what happens when we die.

I have to agree, typically we have differing views on religion. But I have been trying to see things in a different light lately. As I age I feel less angst.

[Starflyer]

And god said " Pray unto me and bringeth 15% of thine income, so that I might hearken unto a Bentley." ...."If not I shall smite thee, and make thine wife grow large and hairy liken to a Russian bear." Fini

[jukeboxhero]

It absolutely is a form of social control in the case of Christianity. However, you should look at it whether or not man purposefully used religion in order to get what they wanted; In other words, do people use religion to satisfy their greed? Absolutely. The Catholic Church in the middle ages instilled such fear in people, that if they did not do what they say, that they would be excommunicated. You can see the politics in it too. After Charlamagne was named the Holy Roman Emperor by Pope Leo III, it created a fictional power control over Europe, and the Christian world, that the Leader who conquers the most land, needs approval of the Church in order to rule their Holy Roman Empire. During the Spanish Colonization of North and South America, Spain had to seek approval, and "gain"(pay tribute) the rights to conquer, and colonize the land, to the papacy. Upon encountering indigenous people, the Spanish would have to read a document, claiming rule for and by Catholics, and would slaughter those who didn't follow, even if they didn't understand.

[Jim]

I dont know that its possible for a person of faith to believe the thought of religion having its roots in social control....and probably vice versa.

[jukeboxhero]

I dont know that its possible for a person of faith to believe the thought of religion having its roots in social control....and probably vice versa.

Social control, and religion really go hand in hand. Muslims have a separate scripture from the Koran, called the Hadith, which was created around the 8th and 9th century. This book is a collections of things the prophet Muhammed did through out his entire life time, accumulated mostly by oral historians of the time period. Good muslims are to follow the Hadith, and try to live life like that of Muhammed. The problem is, that there are so many contradictions in the Hadith, certain Muslim societies basically pick and choose which revelations they decide to follow. So many passages had been added to the Hadith, so many contradictions arose.

[nakedrear]

I dont know that its possible for a person of faith to believe the thought of religion having its roots in social control....and probably vice versa.

for sure. Religion has this kickass safeguard called "guilt". Basically, anytime you question something, you already feel like a heretic for questioning. You say stuff to yourself like, "Where's my faith? Do I really believe? Am I sinning?" In this way, you won't consider plain facts and you'll take great efforts to justify yourself without realizing that you need such elaborate schemes precisely because what you are trying to defend isn't true.

Another aspect of this interesting phenomenon....it takes a lot of work to maintain a false belief system, yet the more time and effort you've invested the more likely you are to defend it. Who wants to be told they're wrong after basing their whole lives around something and putting all their energy into something for so long? Answer: no one.

For people who never fell into the trap of religion it's a no brainer, but if you were caught in it's web when you were young (or whenever) like me...you have to marvel at the uncanny power of guilt.

Conversely, no one who has already freed themselves from this bubble is clamoring to get back in. What's so hard to see from within the bubble is obvious from without.