Do you and why do you think Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest ever?

[Vens]

Topic.

is SRR really the greatest in your opinion? or do you have another one in mind?

[Beanflicker]

I don't believe in appointing a "greatest of all time" in boxing, because no one has seen every boxer, there is limited footage on those old timers, and a lot of great guys back in those days (Charley Burley for example) were ducked like the black plague (pun intended) and never really got their shot at greatness.

If you had to pick one though, I think SRR is the best choice because he had everything. Speed, 1-punch power, skill, chin, heart, mind for boxing, ect ect.

[chad]

robinson is perceived to be the best, who the fuck am i to argue with that. my favourite fighter is roberto duran, the greatest lightweight ever, not saying hes the best ever. henry armstrong has to be top 2

[ItBurnzWhenIP]

There is ALOT of footage of Ray Robinson Bean. And I've seen some of it and he is definitely the greatest of all time. He was PBF fast with Hagler's power but with better hands and much better combination punching. Greatest ever bar-none

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Robinson fought into his older age. Fighting people much younger than him and winning. As well as through his career changing wieght classes holding the belt in both of them. and Fighting no stop......I think that pretty much sums it up

[Beanflicker]

There is ALOT of footage of Ray Robinson Bean.

I was talking about some of the earlier greats. Greb, Henry Armstrong, Charley Burley, Ketchel, ect ect.

And Sugar wasn't without his faults, I think his defense left much to be desired from what I've seen. He had good technique but wasn't as elusive as guys like PBF, Sweet Pea, Roy Jones, ect.

[Bloodshot {ADR}]

no one fighter is the greatest ever in boxing. It's a debatable topic, therefor, no one man is the best ever.

[Bloodshot {ADR}]

I'md runk, does that make sense?

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no one fighter is the greatest ever in boxing. It's a debatable topic, therefor, no one man is the best ever.

You passive agressive bitch.

[ItBurnzWhenIP]

I was talking about some of the earlier greats. Greb, Henry Armstrong, Charley Burley, Ketchel, ect ect.

And Sugar wasn't without his faults, I think his defense left much to be desired from what I've seen. He had good technique but wasn't as elusive as guys like PBF, Sweet Pea, Roy Jones, ect.

Ray Robinson would kill PBF and probably KO Roy Jones despite him being a much much larger man. PBF's amazing defense benefits from the fact that he has ducked anybody with talent near his level his entire career. At least Sweet Pea was a technical defensive master... and SRR would knock him the fuck out too.

[Beanflicker]

PBF's defensive techniques are insane, and he is one of the ATGs no doubt.

Prime Roy Jones gives SRR a whippin too, in part from him being the bigger man.

[ItBurnzWhenIP]

PBF's defensive techniques are insane, and he is one of the ATGs no doubt.

Prime Roy Jones gives SRR a whippin too, in part from him being the bigger man.

Ray Robinson despite being the smaller man very realistically hit harder than Roy Jones and was at least as fast. I've watched him fire off 4 left hook BOMBS in the span of just over a second. Roy Jones never fought anybody during his prime that had a lick of offensive talent. He was able to win a decision over Hopkins and then ducked him the rest of his career and Toney is tailor made for Roy because Roy was just too fast for Toney to slip all his punches and toney fucking sucks cock offensively. We saw what happens to Roy when he faces a talented offensive fighter when he fought Glen Johnson and Joe Calslappy. They both embarrassed him.

Ray Robinson vs RJJ with both in their primes would look like the ass whupping Manny Pacquiao put on DLH. You remember that one? And Floyd is not great defensively as far as technique. He does a million things that would be horrible technically if he didn't have superhuman reflexes. Thats the same as saying Ali was a great technical fighter.

Willie Pep, Bernard Hopkins, Winky Wright and Sweet Pea are great technical defensive fighters. Jake Lamotta, Gene Tunney, Harry Greb and Billy Conn are amazingly technical offensive fighters

You know... Guys that don't make the mistakes that would get a normal human knocked out. Money makes those all the time but it doesn't matter because he's stupid fast and more than that has reflexes that are more ridiculous.

[Beanflicker]

Floyd is technically brilliant. You don't stand in front of a guy and not get hit without being brilliant. I gaurentee you Willie Pep could not do what Floyd did, he was a runner with insane reflexes and a boatload of natural talent. I challenge you to point out one thing Floyd does that is defensively incorrect. Fact is Floyd is a wizard, so much so that the nice fella in your sig couldn't put a glove on him for 10 rounds or so.

SRR was fast, but not as fast a Roy Jones, who along with Ali was probably the fastest
p4p of all time. Roy Jones went 15 years without losing, and finally lost when he was weight drained and past his prime, amazing fighter and one of the true modern greats of all time, no question. Robinson got whipped by guys even in his prime. Sure he beat most of them in a rematch, but he wasn't the invincible god people make him out to be. He got whipped and ducked guys just like everyone else before and after him.

To say Toney sucks offensively is retarded. Maybe you've only seen his recent fights. Go back and watch him at MW and SMW, the guy was a terror. Tim Littles had him cut and they were gonna stop it, TOney asks for one more round, goes out and knocks Tim out. Thats offensive talent. He could do everything, fight on the inside, outside, box, brawl, you name it. Go on a real boxing forum and tell everyone that Glen Johnson is a more talented offensive fighter than James Toney, they'll laugh you out of there.

[ItBurnzWhenIP]

Floyd is technically brilliant. You don't stand in front of a guy and not get hit without being brilliant. I gaurentee you Willie Pep could not do what Floyd did, he was a runner with insane reflexes and a boatload of natural talent. I challenge you to point out one thing Floyd does that is defensively incorrect. Fact is Floyd is a wizard, so much so that the nice fella in your sig couldn't put a glove on him for 10 rounds or so.

SRR was fast, but not as fast a Roy Jones, who along with Ali was probably the fastest
p4p of all time. Roy Jones went 15 years without losing, and finally lost when he was weight drained and past his prime, amazing fighter and one of the true modern greats of all time, no question. Robinson got whipped by guys even in his prime. Sure he beat most of them in a rematch, but he wasn't the invincible god people make him out to be. He got whipped and ducked guys just like everyone else before and after him.

To say Toney sucks offensively is retarded. Maybe you've only seen his recent fights. Go back and watch him at MW and SMW, the guy was a terror. Tim Littles had him cut and they were gonna stop it, TOney asks for one more round, goes out and knocks Tim out. Thats offensive talent. He could do everything, fight on the inside, outside, box, brawl, you name it. Go on a real boxing forum and tell everyone that Glen Johnson is a more talented offensive fighter than James Toney, they'll laugh you out of there.

You're a Toney Nuthugger. The dude is no offensive terror and never has been. Defensive master yes, offensive terror no. Tim Littles the legend that never beat anybody and retired a year later after a KO loss to some nobody. Dude you really need to take into account who people fight. Seriously, Toney only fought and beat 2 guys worth a shit in Michael Nunn and Iran Barkley prior to prime Jirov. RJJ faced an empty talent pool and ducked dangerous rematches. Robinson faced legends from the equivalent of 5 different weight classes.

Someone once said there was a comparison between Sugar Ray Leonard and Sugar Ray Robinson. Believe me, there's no comparison. Sugar Ray Robinson was the greatest.
—Sugar Ray Leonard[51]

Without a doubt the greatest pound for pound fighter that ever lived.
—Jake LaMotta[53]

The king, the master, my idol.
—Muhammad Ali on Robinson[53]


Robinson went 131-3 in his prime fighting from WW to LHW and only lost against LHW champion Joey Maxim because he wilted from heat exhaustion. Joey Maxim is a better fighter than anybody RJJ ever fought with the exception of Hopkins who fought Roy MW against MW and well before his prime... Not blown up WW vs LHW. (Oh by the way... That was the only KO loss of his entire career. I think Roy has a couple more than that.) Robinson would knock Roy's teeth out. Roy knew against Hopkins he caught him before he was ready and never gave him a rematch cause he knew he's get worked. There is a reason Hopkins refuses to give Roy a chance to make himself slightly relevant today and its because he's pissed Roy ducked him for years.

Ray Robinson was the greatest athlete of his day boxer or non-boxer it just happened that his natural talent was in chin, blistering hand speed and devastating power in both hands the likes of which hadn't been seen before or since. Talents matched only by his ability to combination punch like none other. The wins Robinson acquired upon coming back from his 3 year retirement still read like a who's who of boxing history and many are better than anybody Roy ever fought. (Considering Hopkins was far from in his prime when they did fight.) For all Roy did he only beat 1 legend in his prime and that's Toney and I consider Toney a fringe legend.


Edit: There's also alot of retards on "real boxing forums" I know cause I posted on the same one as Iceman John Scully for a long time. There were several complete fucking idiots that fancied themselves historians there. Those are the people that think Toney is an offensive terror. Toney - amazing defensive fighter... Fringe boxing legend but only had the offensive firepower to blast out guys that had made a career crushing average fighters. BTW... Glen Johnson would beat Toney in a laugher.


As to Floyd. Keeping your hands at your fucking sides is NOT technically sound. The fact that he can do it and pull it off is a credit to how great he is. But its due to his natural abilities and reflexes not technique that he avoids punches like that. As I said Winky Wright is great technical defensive fighter because his natural abilities suck ass.

[ItBurnzWhenIP]

Also. Joey Maxim knocks RJJ out in 2

[Beanflicker]

Dude you can sit here and pick ANYONE'S record apart. The double standards are hilarious. Yeah Lamotta was a great fighter and a tough night for anyone. But what if Roy beat someone 5 times? People would just say "Ohh yeah, he whipped him once, knew he was a good match for him so he picked on him over and over". Who the fuck is Bobo Olsen? Joey Maxim wasn't shit anyway. I've seen numerous fights of him after seeing the SRR fight. Obviously you're not familiar with the guy because he has no big punch and he aint nothing special, and if you think he blows RJJ out in 2 either you're a nigga-hater (in which case I can excuse you) or too much of the MMA has been rotting your brain.

Most of those punks SRR whipped are no better than the chumps RJJ whipped. Guys like Tony Thorton, Merqui Sosa, Reggie Johnson, Virgil Hill, Montell Griffen, I'd pick those guys against a lot of the old timers SRR fought. And of course SRL is going to be humble to SRR, and Lamotta is going to praise him, he whipped him 5 times. Lamotta and SRR both ducked Charley Burley anyway, so that must say something about how good that guy was.

Sure there are a lot of retards on boxing forums. Toney wasn`t a huge puncher but he could fight well offensively in any situation or position, which is more than you can say for 95% of the names mentioned in this thread.

[ItBurnzWhenIP]

Dude you can sit here and pick ANYONE'S record apart. The double standards are hilarious. Yeah Lamotta was a great fighter and a tough night for anyone. But what if Roy beat someone 5 times? People would just say "Ohh yeah, he whipped him once, knew he was a good match for him so he picked on him over and over". Who the fuck is Bobo Olsen? Joey Maxim wasn't shit anyway. I've seen numerous fights of him after seeing the SRR fight. Obviously you're not familiar with the guy because he has no big punch and he aint nothing special, and if you think he blows RJJ out in 2 either you're a nigga-hater (in which case I can excuse you) or too much of the MMA has been rotting your brain.

Most of those punks SRR whipped are no better than the chumps RJJ whipped. Guys like Tony Thorton, Merqui Sosa, Reggie Johnson, Virgil Hill, Montell Griffen, I'd pick those guys against a lot of the old timers SRR fought. And of course SRL is going to be humble to SRR, and Lamotta is going to praise him, he whipped him 5 times. Lamotta and SRR both ducked Charley Burley anyway, so that must say something about how good that guy was.

Sure there are a lot of retards on boxing forums. Toney wasn`t a huge puncher but he could fight well offensively in any situation or position, which is more than you can say for 95% of the names mentioned in this thread.

No I'm quite aware of who Maxim is. He's still better than anybody on RJJ's record as he did beat Floyd Patterson. And despite his 21 losses at the time of the Patterson fight he would still KO RJJ in 2

[ItBurnzWhenIP]

Sure there are a lot of retards on boxing forums. Toney wasn`t a huge puncher but he could fight well offensively in any situation or position, which is more than you can say for 95% of the names mentioned in this thread.

I'll give you Toney could fight well offensively. But he's no monster unless he's fighting off somebody punching and missing. You don't get to be at even "great" level of fighter if you have no offense at all, (unless your name is Winky Wright), but you just made it sound like Toney is a killer in there. Fighting a smart defensive fighter Toney would never put them away cause they don't give him enough to work with to counter them.

[Beanflicker]

Thats the story with these old guys, they get famous and mad respect off of 1 or 2 wins. He got close decision wins over Irish Bob, Bob Satterfield, Jersey Joe and Patterson. Back when boxing was even more crooked and the scorign was even more fucked.

referee: Ruby Goldstein 4-3 | judge: Young Otto 7-1 | judge: Joe Eppy 5-3 ~
All 11 sportswrtiters at ringside scored for Patterson though.

Joey Maxim can kiss my ass, he's just some dude who will be remembered for foiling SRR's LHW shot. SRR was exhausted from kicking his ass. he would be lucky to survive the distance against Roy Jones

[ItBurnzWhenIP]

Thats the story with these old guys, they get famous and mad respect off of 1 or 2 wins. He got close decision wins over Irish Bob, Bob Satterfield, Jersey Joe and Patterson. Back when boxing was even more crooked and the scorign was even more fucked.

referee: Ruby Goldstein 4-3 | judge: Young Otto 7-1 | judge: Joe Eppy 5-3 ~
All 11 sportswrtiters at ringside scored for Patterson though.

Joey Maxim can kiss my ass, he's just some dude who will be remembered for foiling SRR's LHW shot. SRR was exhausted from kicking his ass. he would be lucky to survive the distance against Roy Jones

KO Rd 2