Grappling, in practical street situations...

[Benroliver]

Hi, i recently started posting on this site about a few months ago. Ive been doing stand up martial arts since I was little. I have been wanting to try BJJ for the longest time now and make myself a more well rounded fighter.

We all know how well it performs in a ring situation. My question is how tuff is it to complete something like an arm bar and other subs in a street situation where your oponent is clueless and constantly scrambling like mad. For instance if you were attacked and the fight went to the ground and you managed a full mount, how hard would it be to grab ahold of someone swinging crazy, like a typical enraged drunk person would do.

As a smaller fighter, me being 5'6, i have had all my life to overcome taller and stronger people in stand up ring and street situations. Reach advantange is something ive never had, but I have always been very fast and relatively strong for my size. These are things I have always used to help me with kickboxing and tkd. But will these things help me in BJJ? How hard will it be for me to control people in grappling type situations being a smaller guy?

I watch MMA all the time, but watching and actually doing it are completely different. I know from my experience, so does anyone have any pointers before I begin, any suggestions or insight? If so I would love to hear what you guys have to say.

Thx... Ben

[Axeman]

Hi, i recently started posting on this site about a few months ago. Ive been doing stand up martial arts since I was little. I have been wanting to try BJJ for the longest time now and make myself a more well rounded fighter.

We all know how well it performs in a ring situation. My question is how tuff is it to complete something like an arm bar and other subs in a street situation where your oponent is clueless and constantly scrambling like mad. For instance if you were attacked and the fight went to the ground and you managed a full mount, how hard would it be to grab ahold of someone swinging crazy, like a typical enraged drunk person would do.

As a smaller fighter, me being 5'6, i have had all my life to overcome taller and stronger people in stand up ring and street situations. Reach advantange is something ive never had, but I have always been very fast and relatively strong for my size. These are things I have always used to help me with kickboxing and tkd. But will these things help me in BJJ? How hard will it be for me to control people in grappling type situations being a smaller guy?

I watch MMA all the time, but watching and actually doing it are completely different. I know from my experience, so does anyone have any pointers before I begin, any suggestions or insight? If so I would love to hear what you guys have to say.

Thx... Ben

dude i dont train at all (im 43..to old ) but anyway a short time ago i was at a bar and some dude slapped his girl or wife and me hating that shit went to him and ended up fighting him. anyway it got took to the ground and i found myself putting him in an armbar and i would have snapped his shit but someone broke it up. anyway i know what ya mean about being small cause i am 5'7" and 185.

[Aiden]

only thing about street fights and submission moves is that they dont tap or even know what tapping is usually so you might be forced to take the hold further than you expected resulting in charges being pressed and medical bills needing to be paid for broken bones...chokes can go to far since noone is reffing the fight. You can do serious damage if you do any number of moves to hard or to long. Ive choked people out in street fights before but i never tried an armbar, kimura..ect. Just be carful with how far you take it...I usually just like punching them into submission..then they dont want to fight anymore...i found if you choke them out for example when they wake up they had no taste of pain and cant remember what happened which makes them want to take another shot at fighting you...can make for a long night..

[Shoei]

Shorter people tend to have a lot more strength for some reason. My brothers 5'5 160 and he can pretty much overpower me sometimes.

[987654]

shorter people usually have shorter forearms and therefore can get more leverage in grappling

[Axeman]

;279064']only thing about street fights and submission moves is that they dont tap or even know what tapping is usually so you might be forced to take the hold further than you expected resulting in charges being pressed and medical bills needing to be paid for broken bones...chokes can go to far since noone is reffing the fight. You can do serious damage if you do any number of moves to hard or to long. Ive choked people out in street fights before but i never tried an armbar, kimura..ect. Just be carful with how far you take it...I usually just like punching them into submission..then they dont want to fight anymore...i found if you choke them out for example when they wake up they had no taste of pain and cant remember what happened which makes them want to take another shot at fighting you...can make for a long night..

when i got that dude in an arm bar i wasnt wanting him to tap...i wanted to break his shit for slapping his woman around.

[Aiden]

;279386']when i got that dude in an arm bar i wasnt wanting him to tap...i wanted to break his shit for slapping his woman around.


I know which is what most people want but when you know what your doing you can do serious damage to someone and get in serious trouble..I have been in contact with ''The Law'' enough and try to watch that.

[bredli]

shoot and shoot they

[xhale of the shoes]

simply break the elbow... we all know how to do an armbar.


standing kimura is pretty easy

[simply]

Submissions seem pretty risky to me. At the most I would try to establish mount and just pound them or choke them till they're exhausted but I wouldn't choke them out (this is if I ever get into a streetfight, which I probably won't).

Like Aiden said, it's pretty risky applying submissions with something going wrong and you being arrested. Also, if you're in a fight with a guy who has friends, I don't think they'l sit around while you choke their friend out or break their arm.

[Aiden]

Submissions seem pretty risky to me. At the most I would try to establish mount and just pound them or choke them till they're exhausted but I wouldn't choke them out (this is if I ever get into a streetfight, which I probably won't).

Like Aiden said, it's pretty risky applying submissions with something going wrong and you being arrested. Also, if you're in a fight with a guy who has friends, I don't think they'l sit around while you choke their friend out or break their arm.

+1 on the ''getting jumped'' point.

[xhale of the shoes]

break the arm fast... make an early statement

[Benroliver]

;280463']break the arm fast... make an early statement

Yes unfortunately I have had a few RL alteractions... one at a club where a neck shot made the statement after a guy grabbed my girlfriend. However I had one recently where a guy shoved me, he was pretty drunk but knew what he was doing. He kept getting in my face, literally 1 inch from my nose. He pushed me again and I endedup breaking his nose, however i was then jumped by 4 guys after they saw him crying like a baby on the ground with blood coming from his nose and i got tossed to the ground. Two guys on my back where pushing the side of my head into the driveway for a few seconds before others jumped in and separated everyone. My point was made but so was theirs, i had to get a few stitches over my eye. For this exact reason I think street altercations should be taken seriously and put down quick becuase things can get bad very quick.

[headwound]

I think it all depends on the situation but overall it is so much easier to choke out or arm bar someone whos never trained in anything and is a flailing idiot.

[NutShot]

The best thing you can do in a streetfight if you want use your BJJ is to choke the guy out because if you go to an armbar then you must break it and even then he wont give up cause the adrenaline will be to high and he probly wont feel a thing...

[fighter19]

i got in a fight the other day and just slammed him got on his back and pounded the hell out of him he thought the little white kid wouldnt mess him up

[UrbanX]

The best thing you can do in a streetfight if you want use your BJJ is to choke the guy out because if you go to an armbar then you must break it and even then he wont give up cause the adrenaline will be to high and he probly wont feel a thing...
+1 I like to call it, "The Great Equalizer." Taking a guys back is pretty easy, if they don't know grappling.

One thing about street fights is that the adrenaline is flowing big time and dudes get real strong, but it doesn't last forever. Scientifically speaking, within 30 seconds to a minute of fighting at 100% with an adrenaline dump, any person will be drained. If you can ride the storm and keep from getting knocked out, you can win the fight with a nice choke.

[combatbasedonny]

try not to got to the ground in a street fight unless you are 100% sure its 1 on1. clinch and striking are more important in street situations.

arm bars do work on the street, along with most other bjj basics. I actually broke someones arm with a arm bar but lets not go into that.

Like i said bjj is good for 1 on1 but when youre in mount and your like whos the daddy....then his mate come over and soccer kicks you in the face you will know wot i mean!!

[phantasmagoria]

fighting 1 vs 2 isn't a problem specific to jiujitsu. you probably won't win if you fight two guys standing either. you should probably consider this if you see a guy with friends.
thats just my take on it

[cooncat]

I hate it when people talk about grappling being useless in streetfights because of the possibility of multiple opponents.

First of all, the best skill to train if you're facing multiple opponents is called "track and field".

Secondly, if you do get into a fight with 2 or more guys, usually the FIRST thing they're going to try to do is tackle you. When the gracie fight videos say that 80% of fights end up on the ground, they don't necessarily mean that you have to take them there. You will likely end up on the ground whether you like it or not, and if two guys tackle you, you'll probably want to have the skills to reverse them and defend yourself from that position.

An interesting thing to remember about grappling is that you don't have to end a grappling fight with a submission. Being able to get an untrained guy mounted or back mounted can end a fight *real* quick via strikes. Submissions definitely work in real fights too, but you don't call them "submissions" in a real fight, they're called "break somebody's bones". If you're going to use an armbar in real life, you don't wait for the guy to tap or give up, 'cause he's just gonna come right back swinging when you release him...you pull as hard as you can without hesitation until you feel something snap. Now of course, there are legal issues to worry about here, but if your life is in danger, lawyers are the last thing you should be thinking about. Chokes probably the best moves in a street fight because if done correctly they don't do permanent damage, many chokes like a RNC can put a guy to sleep in seconds, and when he wakes up, you're gone.

I've always thought Judo would be a great skill to have in a streetfight, especially if faced with multiple opponents, because it utilizes a lot of throws as opposed to takedowns, which means that you can put someone on their ass while you remain standing. A hard throw onto uneven pavement can end a fight, and if it doesn't, the stomps and soccer kicks that would follow probably would do the job. Of course, there's a ton of technique involved and I wouldn't think you'd be able to pull off clean throws consistently in a streetfighting environment unless you were really good at Judo/Greco/Sambo whatever.

In a real fight you have to be well rounded just like in MMA. Anyone that says that MMA skills don't transfer to streetfighting is clueless, and anyone who says that grappling in a streetfight is useless doesn't know what he's talking about. Remember, street fights often end up on the ground whether you want it there or not...don't you want to know how to fight once it gets there?

[aussjj]

in my humble opinion ground-fighting is bad in a street-fight. Its good to defend against ground-fighting, but a bad strategy for the protagonist. It is stupid against multiple attackers and it ensures that the fight is gonna be serious. No turning back when both guys hit the ground.

Learn basic wrestling/bjj to defend against situations you dont wanna be in, but if a guy tackles you to the ground then youll probably be best just scrambling and trying to stand up.

A good person tries to avoid streetfights and groundfighting only escalates streetfights, and is only useful in 1v1 unarmed combat as seen in mma. I take an art called Seibukan Jujutsu, which is a Japanese form, and our method goes pretty much like this:
1. avoid the attack
2. capture his weapon of attack (arm/wrist/whatever)
3. use it to apply a lock (such as an inverted wristlock turned into a hammerlock or chickenwing.)
4. throw some strikes in there too such as an eyepoke or groin kick to make things easier

This method is a much more well-rounded method of defense because it is effective against armed and unarmed, and does not leave you exposed to multiple assailants such as how wrestling would.

Learn groundfighting basics to defend against groundfighting, but not to settle a situation with groundfighting.

[aussjj]

mma skills do transfer to self-defense but not 100%.

lets asume that bjj transfers to mma 66% while jjj transfers to mma 33%.
well jjj may transfer to self-defense 66% while bjj transfers to self-defense 33%.

a background in bjj is still effective for self-defense, but not optimum since any self-defense expert would agree that ground fighting should be avoided in a street confrontation.

kickboxing, wrestling, and bjj may be the best for mma, but arts like jjj, krav maga, and police training are more suited for self-defense.
(notice i say self-defense and not streetfighting.)

[skunknuts[ADR]]

What i noticed worked best in street fights:

If you can work a back triangle, but once you get it settle yourself so it transfers into normal triangle position (your on your back with the choke in, opponent on top)

keep the choke decently tight and throw punches

the combo can end the fight pretty quickly, but it wont work unless you really know your jiu-jitsu

but anyway...

when i got into one of my few fights, i got mount on a kid who was all strength and i knew some Jiu-jistu then, so i threw some punches and threw in a shitty armbar (idk how he didnt stop it) and made him cry, so i let it go before his friend jumped in and whooped my ass

[ninjashoes]

I would prefer to fight standing on the streets but if the guy has some boxing experience or something then its good to take it to the ground. If your fighting mutiple people or weapons just get the fuck outta there.

[The_attack]

If someone is a lot bigger than me I will try to bring the fight to the ground.

[pbturbo]

Grappling standing up...good for street fighting or defense

Grappling on the ground with one attacker...good for mis-matched sizes...everyone being the same size on the ground

Grappling will help, but not the end all answer. MMA like train...elbow,knees, chokes

[pbturbo]

Breaking the arm doesn't stop the fight...look and Tim Silvia and Frank Mir. Tim looked like he didn't even know it was broken

[u4s4]

I dont want to generally hurt people on street so I like to just control them on ground if possible. One guy hit me in the nose and it bled a little but I still didnt beat him senseless.

[mwvw13]

Chokes (guillotines) work... I promise

[Nick16watt]

It all depends on the situation. If you have your boys with you, take it to the ground and snap his arm or something. That way your boys can watch your back so nobody jumps in. If you're alone, that's a different story.

[ninjashoes]

I would also def like to fight someone much bigger on the ground

[Rob]

I would also def like to fight someone much bigger on the ground

I fight bigger guys on the ground all the time and I must say its a great learning opportunity because you need to focus on technique. You can't simply power out with brute strength.

[thatguy32]

Would Judo be good, for getting out quick, throw them down hard, and get out?? Even if you train with a gi, people are wearing clothes so does it translate good?

[mmabiker]

try not to go to the ground in a street fight is best in my opinion chokes always work well against untrained fighters even standing up

[mmabiker]

and i forgot to mention slams work well in a street fight