good for punching power

[parker]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=-wGDKoeX99Q

[Zere]

Looks like a shoulder injury waiting to happen. I think people go overboard with the swiss balls....

[TapOut136]

The only good advice I ever heard on the topic of improving punching power was something Teddy Atlas said when he said punchers are born, not made. Can you "improve" you're punching power through smart weight training and good technique? Probably. But you aren't going to change the style of fighter you are by lifting weights to punch harder.

[Somalian]

^ Absolutely true, punching power is all genetics,however, you can increase hand speed dramatically through proper training. And i just want to smack that swiss ball moron. I just cant stand people who treat their body like shit, like its indestructible or something. Oh i can just feel a permanent shoulder injury coming for that guy.

[chrismortimer66]

Fuck off, anyone who belive punching power is genetic is a fucking moron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go read some Westside Barbell articles on powerlifting, if guy A can bench press 350lbs at a fast rate for reps, then when he throws and overhand right to someones jaw, BINGO, thier knocked the fuck out, unless they have neck muscles like Mariusz Pudzianowski. Total retard boxing mumbo jumbo, I thought martial arts had enough fucking mystacism, without boxing jumping the bullshitters bandwagon.

The guys on the swiss ball, will develope a much stronger punch as he upps his weights, but to really increase punch power he would do well to increase speed also, by using stretch bands and half the weight he usualy uses. So the guy will be increasing Strength and speed, thusely increasing power, power=speed*strength

[Zere]

I agree, nothing is 100% genetics.

[Somalian]

Fuck off, anyone who belive punching power is genetic is a fucking moron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go read some Westside Barbell articles on powerlifting, if guy A can bench press 350lbs at a fast rate for reps, then when he throws and overhand right to someones jaw, BINGO, thier knocked the fuck out, unless they have neck muscles like Mariusz Pudzianowski. Total retard boxing mumbo jumbo, I thought martial arts had enough fucking mystacism, without boxing jumping the bullshitters bandwagon.

The guys on the swiss ball, will develope a much stronger punch as he upps his weights, but to really increase punch power he would do well to increase speed also, by using stretch bands and half the weight he usualy uses. So the guy will be increasing Strength and speed, thusely increasing power, power=speed*strength

What i meant was we can still get stronger punching power, but we cant improve it dramatically if we have poor genetics. Some people will always have smaller calves and thigh muscles than others, no matter how hard they work out. Some people are just born with heavy hands. And some people cant get Six pack due to poor genetics.

*Edit* thats like saying everyone has the potential to have the legendary punching power of earnie shavers or george foreman if they tried hard enough right?

[TapOut136]

Fuck off, anyone who belive punching power is genetic is a fucking moron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go read some Westside Barbell articles on powerlifting, if guy A can bench press 350lbs at a fast rate for reps, then when he throws and overhand right to someones jaw, BINGO, thier knocked the fuck out, unless they have neck muscles like Mariusz Pudzianowski. Total retard boxing mumbo jumbo, I thought martial arts had enough fucking mystacism, without boxing jumping the bullshitters bandwagon.

The guys on the swiss ball, will develope a much stronger punch as he upps his weights, but to really increase punch power he would do well to increase speed also, by using stretch bands and half the weight he usualy uses. So the guy will be increasing Strength and speed, thusely increasing power, power=speed*strength

If you're response is an example of what you learned by reading Westside or EliteFTS then the only thing anyone could say is that your reading comprehension sucks, and if you knew anything at all you would be embarrassed to have written something so banal.

[chrismortimer66]

"If you're response is an example of what you learned by reading Westside or EliteFTS then the only thing anyone could say is that your reading comprehension sucks, and if you knew anything at all you would be embarrassed to have written something so banal."

Explain why I would be embarassed???

[TapOut136]

If you could direct us to what you read at Westside that supports your disjointed illogical post it would give the illusion that you weren't fucking clueless. You seem to think what you wrote is either evidence, or the product of some logical insight into this topic. You've done nothing at all to further this discussion. The idea that anyone could write so poorly or argue something so ineptly while being totally unaware of their own ignorance is impressive for all the wrong reasons. It would be embarrassing if you realized you’ve been defaming yourself merely by typing.

[humpty]

This discussion has been done to death world-wide without anyone actually coming up with a definitive answer.

I suspect that some strength training can increase punching power if specific to the objective, rather than just pressing & curling, etc. That is until one reaches one's genetic limit - leverages, muscle fibres, etc.

I'd be interested in what Ross Enamait has to say on this as he is a boxer/trainer by trade & understands physiology, strength training, sports specific training, etc.

Although I love Westside/Louie Simmons it's a powerlifting gym primarily, not for combat sports practitioners.

[Zere]

I don't see how certain explosive lifts could possibly not increase punching power.

[chrismortimer66]

Tapout, you just ego wanked all over the forum with your reply, the big clue suneshine, is that westside is POWERLIFTING, i.e. increasing ones power, which ALL people can do.
Seriously have a word with yourself, you look fucking dumb, typical psuedo intellectual!!!
Earnie shavers was the master of getting his body into the punches, this CAN be tought!
What a dope!

[chrismortimer66]

"I suspect that some strength training can increase punching power if specific to the objective, rather than just pressing & curling, etc. That is until one reaches one's genetic limit - leverages, muscle fibres, etc"

Suspect, come on lad, use your grey matter, there is nothing to suspect, why do you thing boxers punch a heavy bag, based on you and tapouts assumptions, they would have knockout power without training on any kind of equipment. I guess this would be logical if they where all built like butterbean.

Tyson perfect example, juiced weightlifter, who used to LIE and say he never lifted weights, even though he used to win bets at 12-13yrs old for benching 200lbs.
later at 21 had a record bench of over 400lbs. But he never lifted weights, boxing is so full of shit, who believes this crap, I mean seriously, Oh sorry, my bad,LoL.

[humpty]

Mr Mortimer66 - don't call me lad, it's patronising & there's really no need.

Read my post again - I'm asserting the view that strength training WILL increase punching power IF the training that is undertaken is specific to the development of that goal.

Ergo, if you read some of Enamait's writing (perhaps you have?) & view some of his videos you will know that strength (power) is a key part of the complete conditioning programme which he espouses. Now, I'm not a an Enamait nut hugger but he does know his stuff on this (combat/boxing specific strength & conditioning) and cites plenty of research referrences to support the practical & empirical experience.

To say that strength training CANNOT improve punching power to ANY extent (great or lesser) is obviously nonsense. My point was that depending where you are on the continuum of experience/skill/power/conditioning, strength training will have a greater or lesser influence on the degree to which you can increase your power.

Now, don't tell me to use my 'grey matter'.:howrude:

[chrismortimer66]

"My point was that depending where you are on the continuum of experience/skill/power/conditioning, strength training will have a greater or lesser influence on the degree to which you can increase your power."

I see your point, like some gym dude who can bench 400lbs for reps, may need to tidy up his technique, but thats kinda obvious, like someone like brock lesnar isn't going to undertake special weightlifting workouts, as he already is strong, so he will do his regular workouts, and the dudes that arn't very strong should undertake strength programs.

Everyone has 2 limits, thier natural limit and thier steroid limit, you combine the latter with speed work and heavy lifting, anyone can have knockout power, I even think most can do it without the steroids[especialy when we include the roundhouse kick to the head]
You have to remember most knockouts don't occur straight away in a fight[sometimes but not often]the guy usualy works his opponant a little, then wallop knock out.
Sometimes its just fluke, or how well[or lack off] conditioned his apponant is.
You can tell when a guy doesn't have knock out power, visualy his kicks or punches have no zip.
That zip is attained by strength and speed work, you combine this with proper body alignment and you got something wonderfull.
Imagine that, strength of tyson and body aligment and 'spotting the moment' of Earnie shavers!
I appologise If I offened you humpty with the lad comment, its a friendly coloquial term where I come from.
I have not heard of this Enamait guy, so I will definitly check his stuff out.

[chrismortimer66]

haha Enamait got me confused, just youtubed him, the dude who does the rosstraining vids, very informative, I stole russian twists from him, brutal exercise for midesection, but does the job.

[humpty]

Yep, those Russian Twists are nice, watch the lower back though!

No offence taken Chris....

[SpunK]

looks like bad form - I havent tried tho so I can't say for sure. The exercise may have its applications but in terms of developing skill-related speed/power, specificity is key.

DB shot-puts are good.

Same with the 'Med Ball Punch':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJoSaxO1III&NR=1

or punch out drills:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YFfy9lXFGE&NR=1

at 1:43 of this vid is good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6JvhCTjicY&feature=channel_page

Accompanying article may shed some light:
http://www.rossboxing.com/thegym/thegym24.htm

[chrismortimer66]

I noticed that on the 3rd video, that ross actually does what the original thread video is about, only on a bench not a medicine ball.
So in other words, YES this excercise will help develope punch power, and is used by Ross Enamait. Doing the excercise on a med ball will make is slighly harder, and shoulder rotators will have to compensate for balance issues on the ball.

[SpunK]

I noticed that on the 3rd video, that ross actually does what the original thread video is about, only on a bench not a medicine ball.
So in other words, YES this excercise will help develope punch power, and is used by Ross Enamait. Doing the excercise on a med ball will make is slighly harder, and shoulder rotators will have to compensate for balance issues on the ball.

Thats actually just a 1-arm DB Bench - looks like he's using a lot of weight too, so I assume he's targeting max strength which has little to do with the development of punching power/speed. The video in question is NOT a compilation of exercises to develop punching power/speed so you can't just assume that was his goal or motive when he selected that movement as a part of his regimen at the time the video was filmed. And I'm sure he didn't intend to leave you with that impression - actually your assumption defies everything he stands for.

And to relate this back to the OP's video is redundant. It's like comparing heavy barbell squats to 1-leg squats; they're two completely different exercises. Before selection, specific goals need to be established so workouts can be designed with purpose and intention dependent upon the individual needs of each athlete.

Remember, many fighters are successful despite their training regimen, not because of it - skill work above all else. When a supplemental strength/conditioning program is utilized, good coach's identify each individuals strengths and weaknesses before establishing priorities and goals, subsequently a specific plan will be arranged with purpose behind each workout in mind. Very seldom will you find two athletes with the same training schedule and very seldom will you find an athlete dedicated to the same schedule for more than a few months. If you're doing things right, Strengths/Weaknesses/Goals/Needs should constantly be changing, as a result the athletes regimen must change as well.

[chrismortimer66]

what doing max lifts has no bearing on speed/power development, sorry lad, go read any "POWER" lifting mags and articles and you will be re-educated on that fact.
I agree with your last paragraph, but then it was all very obvious stuff
You second Paragraph, I have no I idea what your going on about, the original video shows a guy on a med ball doing 1 arm presses, and the ross training vid, he is doing a arm presses on a bench, nothing like comparing 1 legged squats to normal squats.

1 armed dbell Press on a med ball, 1 armed dbell press, not that different son.

Stop trying to be clever, and take in what people write, then reply, and if you find you have nothing to say, then don't make ups stuff.

[SpunK]

lol I said it has 'little to do', meaning there is effect, however there are more specific and efficient methods.

The original vid shows a guy on a Swiss Ball, not a Med Ball, so maybe you need to re-educate yourself on simple terminology. And its just like comparing the 1-leg squat to a barbell squat. The swiss ball requires a lot more balance and stability and demands coordination in controlling the weight throughout a different/unfamiliar muscle firing pattern. Its obvious you can't use as much weight with this exercise, the instability alone regulates this fact. Same with a 1-leg squat - requires more balance, coordination, stability and you can't go as heavy as if it were a barbell squat. Perfect comparison IMO - each has its purpose and can be utilized depending on the strengths/weaknesses/goals/needs of any athlete at any given time.

[ItBurnzWhenIP]

Fuck off, anyone who belive punching power is genetic is a fucking moron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go read some Westside Barbell articles on powerlifting, if guy A can bench press 350lbs at a fast rate for reps, then when he throws and overhand right to someones jaw, BINGO, thier knocked the fuck out, unless they have neck muscles like Mariusz Pudzianowski. Total retard boxing mumbo jumbo, I thought martial arts had enough fucking mystacism, without boxing jumping the bullshitters bandwagon.

The guys on the swiss ball, will develope a much stronger punch as he upps his weights, but to really increase punch power he would do well to increase speed also, by using stretch bands and half the weight he usualy uses. So the guy will be increasing Strength and speed, thusely increasing power, power=speed*strength

Its in good technique and bone and ligament strength. You can't strengthen how naturally strong your ligaments or your bones are.

[ItBurnzWhenIP]

This discussion has been done to death world-wide without anyone actually coming up with a definitive answer.

I suspect that some strength training can increase punching power if specific to the objective, rather than just pressing & curling, etc. That is until one reaches one's genetic limit - leverages, muscle fibres, etc.

I'd be interested in what Ross Enamait has to say on this as he is a boxer/trainer by trade & understands physiology, strength training, sports specific training, etc.

Although I love Westside/Louie Simmons it's a powerlifting gym primarily, not for combat sports practitioners.

And I bet you Pacman punches harder than Ross. Legendary punchers ARE born not made. Even Tyson knows this

[chrismortimer66]

Spunk----"The original vid shows a guy on a Swiss Ball, not a Med Ball, so maybe you need to re-educate yourself on simple terminology"

Got caught up in my anger over your idiocy, easy mistake to make, non the less my point its made, not much difference between either movement[bench of medball], and I do believe I mentioned the "SWISS" ball excerise would be slightly harder.

[chrismortimer66]

"And I bet you Pacman punches harder than Ross. Legendary punchers ARE born not made. Even Tyson knows this"

Tyson just a fucking juice head, what the fuck would he know[only whathe had bin programmed into his tiny head parrot fashion]
Anyone, ANYONE who believes the above statement, is a fucking retard! Humans are built to adapt, everone has the potention to develope knockout power.
On your fucking ideology, you could line up 10 worlds strongest man compeititors, get them to punch people of similar build in the head, and only some of them will be able to knock out people, as knockout power is inherent. Yer fucking right, what ever!! Total bullshit.
Tyson is the very definition of how training[and steroids] can create a POWERFULL athlete, he came in juiced up and powerfull against guys that where used to taking a little longer to fininsh fights, not that disimilar to the williams sisters in tennis, and low and behold they win!

[Somalian]

Its genetics Mortimer. Its all genetics. You think everyone is who is 5'9 can be as fast as Mo Green? You think everyone can be Lance Armstrong merely by working hard?
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[SpunK]

"And I bet you Pacman punches harder than Ross. Legendary punchers ARE born not made. Even Tyson knows this"

Tyson just a fucking juice head, what the fuck would he know[only whathe had bin programmed into his tiny head parrot fashion]
Anyone, ANYONE who believes the above statement, is a fucking retard! Humans are built to adapt, everone has the potention to develope knockout power.
On your fucking ideology, you could line up 10 worlds strongest man compeititors, get them to punch people of similar build in the head, and only some of them will be able to knock out people, as knockout power is inherent. Yer fucking right, what ever!! Total bullshit.
Tyson is the very definition of how training[and steroids] can create a POWERFULL athlete, he came in juiced up and powerfull against guys that where used to taking a little longer to fininsh fights, not that disimilar to the williams sisters in tennis, and low and behold they win!

Despite our differences I have to agree with you here. Whoever said its impossible to strengthen tendons, ligaments and bones hasn't done their homework. The body is an amazing adaptation tool and anyone can develop technique, therefore a stronger punch. Maybe there are some who will never develop knockout power, despite all their efforts, but I'd say it's more common to come across potential prospects who can, than can not (provided proper training)

[humpty]

Seems to me that this 'discussion' is digressing somewhat...

Bones, tendons & ligaments can by strengthened &, in some cases, made more dense through progressive weightbearing/loading activity. This has been proved by many studies in to the prevention of osteoporosis, for example.

The link from bone, etc. strength to punching power is a bit tenuous - I would imagine that in the list of prerequisites for hard punching bone strength is halfway (at least) down the list.

In many ways punching is probably an artform like many others. If I took drawing lessons, practiced 3 hours a day, used the best supplies, practiced some more, took specialist instruction, did this for 5 years I'd probably be a useful artist.....but I'd never be in the top 100 in the world because I've got no innate talent for it.

[chrismortimer66]

"In many ways punching is probably an artform like many others. If I took drawing lessons, practiced 3 hours a day, used the best supplies, practiced some more, took specialist instruction, did this for 5 years I'd probably be a useful artist.....but I'd never be in the top 100 in the world because I've got no innate talent for it."
Yer but if you likes art then you would be, no such thing as innate talent. All things are learnt or developed! If you learn anything parrot fashion, then you won't be good at it, but if you learn/train something you into then you will be, and I think anyone who takes up boxing or martial arts/mma has the potential to develope knock out power, provided thier drive is strong, and thier training is correct, and not fall for the boxing mysticism bullshit that STILL exists now.

[humpty]

'..no such thing as innate talent.'

By this reckoning, anyone could've painted the Sistine chapel ceiling.

...and this is where I leave the 'discussion'.

Toodle pip.

[halcyon {ADR}]

There are a lot of gay threads on ninjashoes. This one, well, you guys want a fuckin mimosa?

This exercise is retarded. The only thing he is developing is his decelerative muscles. THEORETICALLY speaking, he is actually working his ability to take a punch while trying to improve punching power.

The basic movement of punching (and kicking, throwing a ball, etc) is developed mostly from power in the hips. The rotation of throwing a punch is started in the legs, and the hips popping help the momentum of the arm. Proper form and honestly a very limited amount of TRICEP strength (which is the only true growth Schiavo will see from this asinine movement) will impart a MINUTE amount of extra power in the over all movement.

However- as stated the decelerative motion is what makes this somewhat practical. The control necessary to lower the dumbell while on the gay ball will impart some static strength in the follow through portion of a punch. A well executed punch will POSSIBLY be more effective if it is able to move more fluidly against resistance (I.e. a dumbell or a jaw)

In my humble opinion- this movement is a waste of time. There are a few low resistance movements that may make your triceps stronger, but most "this will make you punch hard" type movements work the shoulders and triceps. The hip rotation is the key movement in every single strike. A faster/stronger "POP" will result in a faster/stronger strike. The faster the pop, the faster the arm movement, and therefore, the more likely your devastating "I didnt see that coming" KO punch will hit its target. The stronger...well, if it was well placed and faster than expected, strength didn't really matter.

Strength will help in mma, but not so much in striking. In a limited sense, it could help, but honestly, here is my closing analogy:

Ross Enamait might be able to ko Mike Tyson. He would have to be faster and "get off" before Tyson every time, and do it often. Even then, there is an enormous size difference, and there is a reason dudes Ross' size dont fight heavyweights. Tyson would only need to get off once, at full power, and hit the button, to ko Ross and really alot of guys during his days. Juiced? Yes, no, it doesnt matter. The fact is, and not to get off subject, but this exercise wont help you ko any body any better than doing some good heavy russian twists and dont stop doing heavy deads. Develop your hips, and work them into a faster rotation, and you MIGHT be able to develop better ko power.

[Radar]

'..no such thing as innate talent.'

By this reckoning, anyone could've painted the Sistine chapel ceiling.

...and this is where I leave the 'discussion'.

Toodle pip.

learning physical movement is completely different to being able to transcribe your imaginings into the physical form



or some shit like that

[Radar]

^ Absolutely true, punching power is all genetics,however, you can increase hand speed dramatically through proper training. And i just want to smack that swiss ball moron. I just cant stand people who treat their body like shit, like its indestructible or something. Oh i can just feel a permanent shoulder injury coming for that guy.

you don't think he treats his body well enough, so you want to smack him for it

[chrismortimer66]

Exercises to Develop knock out power for both legs and arms,
"This exercise is retarded. The only thing he is developing is his decelerative muscles. THEORETICALLY speaking, he is actually working his ability to take a punch while trying to improve punching power." I agree, there re much better excercies.


Box squats, deadlifts, bench[Fuck, thats what POWERLIFTERS train for, who would of guessed!]
Weighted depth jumps [50lb+ to 42 surface], russian twists with weight [45lb+ on a steep incline], full contact twists [90lb+]. Plyometrics[depth jumps class as em, speed bench or smith machine throws]

Good carry over for specific punches,
close grip bench press with stretch bands = jab, overhand, straight
pecdeck or dumbell flye for chest = hook
frontal raises AND bicep curls= uppercut

heavy bag work with a 120lbs+ bag.
Learning not to tense up when throwing punches.

You do this and improve your weights for all excercises then you are on your way to developing true knockout power.

" and there is a reason dudes Ross' size dont fight heavyweights. "
Yer because thier stats on the above exercises would be much higher, meaning they would have more KNOCK OUT power because of this.

I personaly disagree with weight divisions in MMA and more so in NHB, obviously a boxer on has thier hands to use to strike, so bigger guys will also have longer reach, thats the only reason I agree with weight divisions for boxers, boxing is much to skewed to the guy with the longer arms, you mix that with a guy that could bench 3 times what you can, then thats a pretty fast fight your gunna see.

Anyone can develope knockout power!

Oh yes and Mr left card with the Myostatiin Cow, you seriously think that all the guys with knockout power have low levels of myostatin.
I suppose you think all the MR. Universes, Mr Olympia, Worlds Strongest men, Elite powerlifters, olympic shot putters and javeline throws must all to have low levels of myostatin, or is it hard work, the right kind of training and steroids.
Stop reading dumb ass mags, that make out elite guys are extra special some how, wisen the fuck up, its hard work, dedication and time, sports specific training, correct nutrition, correct prehab and rehab protocols and a good a steroid dealer.
Take em off the pedestal son, take em off!

[SpunK]

This discussion has been done to death world-wide without anyone actually coming up with a definitive answer.

I suspect that some strength training can increase punching power if specific to the objective, rather than just pressing & curling, etc. That is until one reaches one's genetic limit - leverages, muscle fibres, etc.

I'd be interested in what Ross Enamait has to say on this as he is a boxer/trainer by trade & understands physiology, strength training, sports specific training, etc.

Although I love Westside/Louie Simmons it's a powerlifting gym primarily, not for combat sports practitioners.

There's a discussion going on right now over at rosstraining:
http://www.rosstraining.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41522&p=526796#p526796

...Basically
Punching power is a complex topic.

Ross

I feel my post on the third page is fairly accurate and echos what Ross was saying in his first post...he has a few throughout

[RedFace]

Looks tough

[TBA]

This thread is an instant classic.... lad.