View Full Version : Freeman Dyson on Science and Religion


amanamagus
08-07-2008, 03:13 PM
I havent read anything on Dyson but I really liked this quote from his wikipedia page. I'll make it a priority to read him as soon as I can. If any of you mofos come across any resource or any ebook, do post it here.

Science and religion are two windows that people look through, trying to understand the big universe outside, trying to understand why we are here. The two windows give different views, but they look out at the same universe. Both views are one-sided, neither is complete. Both leave out essential features of the real world. And both are worthy of respect.

Trouble arises when either science or religion claims universal jurisdiction, when either religious or scientific dogma claims to be infallible. Religious creationists and scientific materialists are equally dogmatic and insensitive. By their arrogance they bring both science and religion into disrepute. The media exaggerate their numbers and importance. The media rarely mention the fact that the great majority of religious people belong to moderate denominations that treat science with respect, or the fact that the great majority of scientists treat religion with respect so long as religion does not claim jurisdiction over scientific questions.[27]

Dyson disagrees with the famous remark by his fellow-physicist Steven Weinberg that "Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things—that takes religion."[28]

“ Weinberg's statement is true as far as it goes, but it is not the whole truth. To make it the whole truth, we must add an additional clause: "And for bad people to do good things—that takes religion." The main point of Christianity is that it is a religion for sinners. Jesus made that very clear. When the Pharisees asked his disciples, "Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?" he said, "I come to call not the righteous but sinners to repentance." Only a small fraction of sinners repent and do good things, but only a small fraction of good people are led by their religion to do bad things.[28]

lancaster
08-07-2008, 03:54 PM
Science and religion are two windows that people look through, trying to understand the big universe outside, trying to understand why we are here. The two windows give different views, but they look out at the same universe. Both views are one-sided, neither is complete. Both leave out essential features of the real world. And both are worthy of respect.

If we replace occurances of religion with philosophy, then I'd agree with this statement. Religion doesn't try to help people understand the universe, it claims it knows all already. Religion isn't interested in us expanding our understanding of things.

amanamagus
08-07-2008, 03:59 PM
If we replace occurances of religion with philosophy, then I'd agree with this statement. Religion doesn't try to help people understand the universe, it claims it knows all already. Religion isn't interested in us expanding our understanding of things.
It is!. Atleast IMO. It is a set of guidelines which helps people to discover and choose the path. It should not/could not be intolerant against science, questioning, discovering and the spirit of inquiry.

lancaster
08-07-2008, 04:18 PM
Could you give me an example? You are more familiar with the different religions of today than I am.

amanamagus
08-08-2008, 04:40 AM
Take the example of buddhism. Buddha encouraged the spirit of enquiry among his followers. He urged them not to take anything at its face value. He urged them not to believe something just because he said so. Dalai Lama says that if principles of budhism are against science, buddhism will have to change.

ACIM (Advanced Course in miracles) has similar concepts where there is no interpreter or teacher of their scripture and the followers have to read it themselves. Nakedrear can elaborate on that stuff better than I can.

Hinduism's branch of medicine, ayurveda, works as well as it did centuries and is staging a comeback.

Many of "facts" stated in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, the scripture and 11th guru of sikhs, have been proved by scientists. They however, didn't used any scientific methods. I'll give you specific examples after I'm done reading this ebook (www.sikhs.wellington.net.nz/Sikh_Religion.pdf ). I started it a long time back but still havent completed it.

From the wikipedia page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_and_science

Scientists have found that there are billions of galaxies, each galaxy containing billions of starts and millions of planets revolving around those stars with millions of moons revolving around those planets. Our galaxy, the Milky Way, has approximately 200 billions stars and millions of planets from which few are known. There are billions of galaxies like ours in the universe and this is just now being realized by modern science, where as Sikh Scripture mentioned it long before its discovery.

"Na kichh aibo na jaibo, Ram ki dohai re" - law of indestructibility of matter and energy in our modern science.

"Jo brahmande soi pinde" "Whatever is in the universe, is in the matter."

lancaster
08-08-2008, 07:44 AM
Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion. For a set of beliefs to be a religion it must be theistic. Consider the Abrahamic religions. According to them, if there is a conflict between a religious belief and scientific evidence, the religion doesn't adapt to accomodate the new understandings.

amanamagus
08-08-2008, 09:57 AM
Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion. For a set of beliefs to be a religion it must be theistic. Consider the Abrahamic religions. According to them, if there is a conflict between a religious belief and scientific evidence, the religion doesn't adapt to accomodate the new understandings.
Ok. I was pretty sure that Tibetan Buddhists believed in God. I'll have to get back at you if I have any more examples after I'm done reading the above specified book.