If somebody would pray to god and god would listen, the laws would change to achieve the desired result. Thus the world would be different and the prayer would never have been said. Besides god would already (in an "above time" sense of view) know that you would pray, and already have changed the world. Prayers would be totally meaningless. We would already live in the best world possible, and any prayer would be to doubt the wisdom of god.

Even worse: For every prayer said, god has not acted, or else the prayer had been undone. This means that the more people have prayed, the more bad things in the world have persisted. Therefore, the more you pray, the more evil persist (provided god exists and stands above time).

A much better way to change the world is to do it yourself. Then you would know that it was you who made the world better. The effect of prayers are not scientific provable, whilst the effect of actions are. Instead of praying you should set to work at improving your situation. This is what humanism is about.

It shows we care, it's not like you rub a magic bottle and a geni pops out. I see your reasoning, you don't have to prove anything to me.

A prayer is a request.

I see your reasoning, you don't have to prove anything to me.

Why do people give their opinion if their not willing to defend it?

It shows we care, it's not like you rub a magic bottle and a geni pops out. I see your reasoning, you don't have to prove anything to me.

A prayer is a request.

Yes, a request that will never be answered. For the reasons listed in this thread. You ask things of God to show God that you care about God? then why make requests and not just praise God in prayer?

Why do people give their opinion if their not willing to defend it?

I am defending it, people just tend to think I'm slamming them and saying I'm superior. Ask away..

Yes, a request that will never be answered. For the reasons listed in this thread. You ask things of God to show God that you care about God? then why make requests and not just praise God in prayer?

when you pray for someone, you care for that individual. This is how God wants us to treat one another. Not to show that I care about God, but to show I've come to understand his values. It's a demonstration of faith.

By that definition you pray to God but expect no result? Is that accurate?

By that definition you pray to God but expect no result? Is that accurate?

I ask for results, and expect nothing.

I put my trust in God. He knows what I need, I only know what I want.

When praying to God and praying to a couch produce the same results, it definitely raises questions.

When praying to God and praying to a couch produce the same results, it definitely raises questions.

For real, my couch gives me overwhelming feelings of good through prayer. Something God can never do.....

For real, my couch gives me overwhelming feelings of good through prayer. Something God can never do.....

You would. You just need to have more faith in your couch.

i view prayer as a form of meditation. If you pray correctly then i think it can actually help. I've always heard youre not supposed to pray for material things because god obviously help people with this. But i believe that if you pray for emotional strength through tough times or putting things out of your control in "gods hands" then it can help people gain the stability they need or help them cope with a loss.

i don't pray btw.

I ask for results, and expect nothing.

I put my trust in God. He knows what I need, I only know what I want.

You ask to show that you believe but expect no sign or answer.. which is apt because you will never get one. If God answered prayers he would contradict himself.

PRayer works. Simply put. I know this as a sound and unshakable fact. Just as real as the air I breath.

Define "works".

You ask to show that you believe but expect no sign or answer.. which is apt because you will never get one. If God answered prayers he would contradict himself.

This world is about freewill, not getting everything we want. If he answered every prayer we wouldn't have any problems. And life would be simple.

PRayer works. Simply put. I know this as a sound and unshakable fact. Just as real as the air I breath.

too bad youre not an authority on anything. Some people really really believe that they have aliens talking to them in their brains. They know it for a fact. Again youre putting yourself above others. You are nobody.

Some people really really believe that they have aliens talking to them in their brains. They know it for a fact. .

All Christians are insane?

Just found that statement condescending in it of itself. with all due respect.

no im just saying that just because he believes in it so wholeheartedly doesn't make it true.

This world is about freewill, not getting everything we want. If he answered every prayer we wouldn't have any problems. And life would be simple.


The world is not "about" any one thing. Human beings have free will, this I agree with. what I am trying to get across to you is that if God answered 1 prayer EVER in the history of mankind he would be contradicting himself. He would contradict himself because if he is all knowing and all seeing he would know what you would pray for before you do, and if he were to answer your prayer he would have the opportunity to do it before you even asked it. So why pray? to prove to God that you believe in him? how shallow of an omnipotent being. If God wants you to struggle and have problems and make a choice between good and evil instead of creating a world where all people are happy and free and perfect.. then he is a kid with an ant farm, experimenting on us, and that does not make him worthy of worship, because he shows you no respect.

The world is not "about" any one thing. Human beings have free will, this I agree with. what I am trying to get across to you is that if God answered 1 prayer EVER in the history of mankind he would be contradicting himself. He would contradict himself because if he is all knowing and all seeing he would know what you would pray for before you do, and if he were to answer your prayer he would have the opportunity to do it before you even asked it. So why pray? to prove to God that you believe in him? how shallow of an omnipotent being. If God wants you to struggle and have problems and make a choice between good and evil instead of creating a world where all people are happy and free and perfect.. then he is a kid with an ant farm, experimenting on us, and that does not make him worthy of worship, because he shows you no respect.

This world will never be happy free and perfect. That's what the bible states and that's the way of the world. God isn't the only influence upon this earth. He wants voluntary love. We are not worthy of respect! He shouldn't worship us.

You can worship something that hates you if you want. But all of this God loves us and wants us to choose him is bullshit. If he is omnipotent then there is no choice, if you choose Good you choose God, if you choose evil, you choose God, these are his creations (according to christians..). If 1 omnipotent being created everything then everything is his. simply put.

Prayer works for those that come to God with an open heart.

Prayer works for those that come to God with an open heart.

As I said, define "works". Do you believe God answers prayers? Do you believe God changes the world to fit a persons prayers?

You can worship something that hates you if you want. But all of this God loves us and wants us to choose him is bullshit. If he is omnipotent then there is no choice, if you choose Good you choose God, if you choose evil, you choose God, these are his creations (according to christians..). If 1 omnipotent being created everything then everything is his. simply put.

Don't have any further discussion, didn't leave me any opporunities for questions. Love is all that's worth anything to me, simply put.

reps, good discission.

anus

anus

Mods only anus threads if they open their hearts to ninjashoes.

Mods only anus threads if they open their hearts to ninjashoes.

lol :owned:

Mods only anus threads if they open their hearts to ninjashoes.

no, actually I was referring to you and your hatemongering that you have towards God.

I was calling you an anus. :gojerkit:

You really aren't worth replying to. Even moreso than Lanc. But I persist.

no, actually I was referring to you and your hatemongering that you have towards God.

I was calling you an anus. :gojerkit:

You really aren't worth replying to. Even moreso than Lanc. But I persist.

namecalling is not allowed here. youve been breaking this rule more than others lately. but since believing in god makes you better than the rest i guess this is ok.

P.S. I dont really think if someone doesn't believe in god he is hating god. How can one hate something that he does not believe exists? He can't.

He referred to God as an asshole and such on various occasion. So yeah, I take that to heart. I am offended by such, just as you would be if I was telling you to your face in front of your mother that your mother is such n such. It's not cool to be that brash and attack people in that manner. You wouldn't really understand that point though, not being a believer, you only love yourself.

He referred to God as an asshole and such on various occasion. So yeah, I take that to heart. I am offended by such, just as you would be if I was telling you to your face in front of your mother that your mother is such n such. It's not cool to be that brash and attack people in that manner. You wouldn't really understand that point though, not being a believer, you only love yourself.

i love the human race. I love all animals. I would never hurt anyone for any reason, emotionally or physically. I give to charity and promote overall human peace and caring, but since i dont believe in your god I only love myself. You are the most narcissistic person in this forum, you look down upon others, reject any points (no matter how good they are) if they slightly disagree with you, and openly bash other religions. YOU only love yourself and use god as an excuse.

How can one hate something that he does not believe exists? He can't.

:yes:

ACtually I'm only narcissistic in your opinion compared to you.

I got a glimpse of what the atheist feels the other day.

I got a warrant in the mail about a traffic ticket I had already went to court on and beat.

Driving past the city flag that is also on their correspondence, I felt like taking it down from the flagpole... why? What made me think that way?

Well because I knew I was wrong and I didn't want any reminders that I was wrong that I can view as I drove past it daily. For me it didn't represent what it did for others.

Then I realized why Hatheists want to take down all our representation of God in the world. Because they are wrong and it convicts them to see it on a daily basis.

I could never imagine living with that constant conviction. I now understand the Hatheist that much more.

You're kind of reaching for material now aren't you?

You can worship something that hates you if you want. But all of this God loves us and wants us to choose him is bullshit. If he is omnipotent then there is no choice, if you choose Good you choose God, if you choose evil, you choose God, these are his creations (according to christians..). If 1 omnipotent being created everything then everything is his. simply put.

Hey, I just realized what an hypocrisy your statement was...

You said that we Christians can worship something that hates us. Well that's funny because Satan hates us and we don't worship Satan, but if you are against Christ (as you seem to state you are) then you worship satan. So you worship something that hates you.

Hey I watched a weird but interesting movie last night called Gabriel. I'm sure you would like it. For many reasons. I would suggest renting it. I don't agree with quite a few things or statements in the movie, but still it was pretty cool.

Angels with tat's fighting with fists, guns and knives. I think you would appreciate the gritty feel of it.

point of the movie is that we make the choice, and we can choose to come back to God, for He loves us eternally but hates the sin that we do.

You're kind of reaching for material now aren't you?

no, just sharing what I felt in that situation.

Hey, I just realized what an hypocrisy your statement was...

You said that we Christians can worship something that hates us. Well that's funny because Satan hates us and we don't worship Satan, but if you are against Christ (as you seem to state you are) then you worship satan. So you worship something that hates you.

Hey I watched a weird but interesting movie last night called Gabriel. I'm sure you would like it. For many reasons. I would suggest renting it. I don't agree with quite a few things or statements in the movie, but still it was pretty cool.

Angels with tat's fighting with fists, guns and knives. I think you would appreciate the gritty feel of it.

point of the movie is that we make the choice, and we can choose to come back to God, for He loves us eternally but hates the sin that we do.



1.
hypocrisy |hiˈpäkrisē|
noun ( pl. -sies)
the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.
ORIGIN Middle English : from Old French ypocrisie, via ecclesiastical Latin, from Greek hupokrisis ‘acting of a theatrical part,’ from hupokrinesthai ‘play a part, pretend,’ from hupo ‘under’ + krinein ‘decide, judge.’


2. Satan means nemesis. It is a hebrew word that does not refer to the devil.

3. I do not believe in the Devil, or the holy trinity. So how can I worship any of them?

4. buy a dictionary, they are cheap and effective.

nice posting Robot.

The greatest trick satan ever did was convincing people he doesn't exist.

nice posting Robot.

The greatest trick satan ever did was convincing people he doesn't exist.

Think for yourself. Thats from a good movie though.

oh trust me, it was from before the movie. See this is the problem. You see a movie and think the information in it was original. You read something then think it was original that someone posted on the net. Unfortunately, the one thing that is original and was plagerized was the Bible. This is a living history and lineage of the fall of man to the redemption of man. Yeah Satan is original from the Bible. So is what is in the Bible. It wasn't plagerized, but was plagerized from.

cue stupid, pointless discussion by lancaster, judoka, and giantrobotdelux on how the Bible was plagarized. ^^^

cue stupid, pointless discussion by lancaster, judoka, and giantrobotdelux on how the Bible was plagarized. ^^^

If you don't like stupid, pointless discussions then what are you doing in this subforum?

You guy's shouldn't let anger get the best of you.

If you think the word Satan is in the bible, then you must be reffering to the hebrew bible a.k.a the old testament which obviously does not mention jesus christ although it does draw very serious parallels between the lives of Joseph and Jesus. Satan is not a character from the new testament.

Satan's biggest flaw was he was jealous and this is something I can not handle in people.

If you don't like stupid, pointless discussions then what are you doing in this subforum?

What does this subforum have to do necessarily with pointless stupid discussions?

http://www.elitesavers.com/funny/testicles.jpg

:to_keep_order:

O wavering mind,
awaken your upward-flowing awareness.
Become the sublime warrior Goddess Kali,
who moves with graceful power
through the vast landscape of the body.

Her divine form, like a black storm cloud
illumined by the sun,
she stands unveiled,
her long hair falling free like monsoon rain.
Be lost in awe of her, O mind,
for you will never comprehend her.

She dwells as the primal lotus of conscious energy
and also as the thousand-petal blossom,
complete enlightenment.
She is none other than primordial bliss,
this great swan ever swimming
through the lotus jungle of the subtle body.

Gaze intently into the blazing heart of joy
and you will perceive my blissful Mother,
matrix of all phenomena.
The vision of Kali
kindles the fire of unitive wisdom,
burning down conventional barriers,
pervading minds and worlds with light,
revealing her exalted beauty
as universal flower garden
and universal cremation ground,
where lovers merge with Mother Reality,
experiencing the single taste of nonduality.

This ardent poet of the Goddess cries:
"Every lover longs only
to gaze upon the unique Beloved.
Why close your eyes?
Why disappear into formless trance?"

DP

oh trust me, it was from before the movie. See this is the problem. You see a movie and think the information in it was original. You read something then think it was original that someone posted on the net. Unfortunately, the one thing that is original and was plagerized was the Bible. This is a living history and lineage of the fall of man to the redemption of man. Yeah Satan is original from the Bible. So is what is in the Bible. It wasn't plagerized, but was plagerized from.

several sources say different. Jesus is almost an exact copy of horus, an egyptian god, as well as about three dozen others.

/dumb bible plagerized discussion.

several sources say different. Jesus is almost an exact copy of horus, an egyptian god.

Er...there are some similarities, but they are not even close to exact copies of one another.

HAHAHA dude they both were 1/2 human, they both died for three days and were resurrected, they both performed miracles for their people. What more do you want?

HAHAHA dude they both were 1/2 human, they both died for three days and were resurrected, they both performed miracles for their people. What more do you want?

Jesus isn't 1/2 human, he's fully Human and fully God.

You could say the same thing about Hercules--

- Hercules was half human/half god
- After death Hercules ascended to heaven
- Hercules performed wondrous acts and attracted the envy and anger of those in power

To say Hercules, or Horus, are carbon copies is absurd. The differences are too clear.

- Hercules was a warrior not a teacher
- Hercules' stories have nothing in common with Jesus'
- Hercules was vain and embodied different ideals...nothing like the stoic views that Jesus embodies

- Horus was half man, half bird
- Horus battled his brother for the throne of Egypt
- Horus had numerous wives and children. Jesus was presumably celibate.

yeah we've all discussed this in other forums. Christ is 100% man and 100% God at all times. The only thing that may refer to those in the myths of being half human and half God would be the Nephilim which were supposed to be fallen angels pairing with human women and having offspring which were revered as heroes of old and men of renown. Gen 6:4.

But all of these myths came AFTER Christ, since He created all things and preexisted time. Since Christ was foretold to come by the signs and stars and after the first sin in the Garden of Eden, then this would have permeated all humanity of His eventual return to take away the sins of the world. This is when the story tellers get happy and make myths and gods to control the masses and people. But not through love as Christ did. Through fear. Although we fear God, God is good, all the time. But He isn't safe, but He is good. God can as we have seen in the Bible, strike you dead whenever He chooses to. God can take away everything in your life, so you will come to know Him. Your purpose here upon earth is to come to God, of your own accordance and will, and to love Him freely. You have this life to do this. The sooner you do, the sooner you will feel His light shine upon you.

yeah we've all discussed this in other forums. Christ is 100% man and 100% God at all times. The only thing that may refer to those in the myths of being half human and half God would be the Nephilim which were supposed to be fallen angels pairing with human women and having offspring which were revered as heroes of old and men of renown. Gen 6:4.

But all of these myths came AFTER Christ, since He created all things and preexisted time. Since Christ was foretold to come by the signs and stars and after the first sin in the Garden of Eden, then this would have permeated all humanity of His eventual return to take away the sins of the world. This is when the story tellers get happy and make myths and gods to control the masses and people. But not through love as Christ did. Through fear. Although we fear God, God is good, all the time. But He isn't safe, but He is good. God can as we have seen in the Bible, strike you dead whenever He chooses to. God can take away everything in your life, so you will come to know Him. Your purpose here upon earth is to come to God, of your own accordance and will, and to love Him freely. You have this life to do this. The sooner you do, the sooner you will feel His light shine upon you.

that is the most batshit fucking insane comment i've ever read in this forum.
first of all you can't pre-exist time, if you could it would be impossible to prove. Secondly if god is all good, then why not create all people good and invite them in heaven instead of having them murder each other on earth? also, if god is omnipotent why not stop lucifer from ever being born..?

that is the most batshit fucking insane comment i've ever read in this forum.
first of all you can't pre-exist time, if you could it would be impossible to prove. Secondly if god is all good, then why not create all people good and invite them in heaven instead of having them murder each other on earth? also, if god is omnipotent why not stop lucifer from ever being born..?

There are some pretty compelling theodicies regarding the Problem of Evil.

There are some pretty compelling theodicies regarding the Problem of Evil.

agreed. If god is all good how could he create something that is not good? Is creating evil not an evil act by definition?

Is creating evil not an evil act by definition?

It demonstrates why good is so important, and it very may well by definition.

yeah we've all discussed this in other forums. Christ is 100% man and 100% God at all times. The only thing that may refer to those in the myths of being half human and half God would be the Nephilim which were supposed to be fallen angels pairing with human women and having offspring which were revered as heroes of old and men of renown. Gen 6:4.

But all of these myths came AFTER Christ, since He created all things and preexisted time. Since Christ was foretold to come by the signs and stars and after the first sin in the Garden of Eden, then this would have permeated all humanity of His eventual return to take away the sins of the world. This is when the story tellers get happy and make myths and gods to control the masses and people. But not through love as Christ did. Through fear. Although we fear God, God is good, all the time. But He isn't safe, but He is good. God can as we have seen in the Bible, strike you dead whenever He chooses to. God can take away everything in your life, so you will come to know Him. Your purpose here upon earth is to come to God, of your own accordance and will, and to love Him freely. You have this life to do this. The sooner you do, the sooner you will feel His light shine upon you.

You lend real credence to the myth that people only use 10% of their brain.

glad to hear that. There is no flaming in this forum and I interpret this as flaming and attacking the poster.

agreed. If god is all good how could he create something that is not good? Is creating evil not an evil act by definition?

A theodicy is an answer to the problem of evil.

It demonstrates why good is so important, and it very may well by definition.

If God is omnipotent then he can abolish all evil. If god exists (and I firmly believe the judeo-christian god does not) then he wants you to be both evil and good, because that is what he is, creation in his own image.

A theodicy is an answer to the problem of evil.

Great.. now you can answer my question if you want. :popcorn:

God created the Devil for His purpose. He is a created being and all created beings have a purpose. Our purpose is to come to know and love God upon our own accord through understanding.

Satan is created to be a choice. Choose his way or to follow God, you have the freedom of a choice. However we are told many times over and well warned of satan. Even the atheists know who satan is and what he is supposed to be able to do and how he can affect our lives past, present and future.


So... stop being ignorant already and embrace the truth.

The truth that you already know but surely deny or just plain reject of your own selfishness.

I agree, we should convert to islam and worship allah

xcept your muslim name from today is salim ali ganduwala

xcept your muslim name from today is salim ali ganduwala

Great! Thanks for the honor!

So your Muslim name will be: usuqa madeek

Great.. now you can answer my question if you want. :popcorn:

You remind me of the little chubby kid that just watched his mother bake a fresh batch of chocolate chip cookies. The mother tells the youngster that they are not all for him, that would be selfish and also not healthy for him. He has a condition and too much sugar could kill him. She leaves the room and promptly the boy eats all the cookies. Goes into shock from the influx of sugar, making his life that much more difficult. His mother told him not to do this, but he did anyways. He says to himself, why is she hiding all these good things and not allowing me to eat them all up? Not understanding his mother's love for him and not wanting him to be deprived of anything but also not wanting him to make his life hard she allows him to slip up once in a while and eat a cookie. But little fatty just wants to have all of them all the time, because he's selfish and just thinks his mother is being mean and evil to him.

Robot, you just lack the capacity to understand why God does what He does in your current state of mind. Maybe you can work on that.

I would rather die today then live in a world where the "point" of my life is to earn the acceptance of an all knowing omnipotent bastard who has created me for his own amusement. If God exists then we are his slaves and his biggest trick is convincing us that we want to be his slaves.. that we need him.

Morality, spirituality, and god are inventions of the human psyche.
Get over yourself or stay a child xcept.

I would rather die today then live in a world where the "point" of my life is to earn the acceptance of an all knowing omnipotent bastard who has created me for his own amusement. If God exists then we are his slaves and his biggest trick is convincing us that we want to be his slaves.. that we need him.

Morality, spirituality, and god are inventions of the human psyche.
Get over yourself or stay a child xcept.

I would as well... Since you have such a distorted viewpoint and lack of understanding, coming out of your mouth it sounds pretty bleak.

So you believe that the point of your life is to "earn" the acceptance of God. I doubt that very seriously, but you are quite mistaken. God has accepted you and loves you already. His love doesn't change, whether you hate Him or love Him, or just don't feel that you are aware of His existence. You have also claimed that God doesn't exist, and that morality are inventions of the human psyche.

So where's your evidence to back your claim? I will wait for it to come from you. I'd be interested in where you found this information which you have stated.

waiting...

killing each other in the name of god is a sign that people are trying to earn god's acceptance. All you need is a book for your proof. if your god truly loved us he would put a stop to the killing and genocide that happens everyday on his beloved earth. Thats all the proof i need.

And God has a plan to do such a thing. However He waits... He waits for as many people as possible to come to Him before doing this. He wants all to come to know him and love Him. But as you know first hand, not everyone does.

I would suggest you try to understand about the Word of God to us a bit more before you speak on something you aren't clear on.

the word of god was written by man and thats all i need to know about it.

the word of god was written by man and thats all i need to know about it.

What if it was written by man but inspired by God?

inspiration by definition comes from within.

inspiration by definition comes from within.

???

Uh...no it doesn't.

yeah it does, think about it. People can look at the sky and feel nothing, but if someone looks at the sky and writes a poem about it he was inspired by the sky. But where did that feeling come from? There was no interaction that the sky did for him that it didn't do for anyone else. So something inside that person made him feel inspired by what he saw.

yeah it does, think about it. People can look at the sky and feel nothing, but if someone looks at the sky and writes a poem about it he was inspired by the sky. But where did that feeling come from? There was no interaction that the sky did for him that it didn't do for anyone else. So something inside that person made him feel inspired by what he saw.

The very word "inspire" means "to take in". Breathing, for instance, involves inspiration and expiration. Which one do you think means breathing in?

Inspiration involves gaining some insight through some external source. You take something in, say some scene of nature as you said, you get an idea, and then you write/paint/say the idea. But ultimately the impetus for action was something in the world.

But dude, this isn't really up for debate. Do you want me to say God guided the writers of the Bible rather than "inspired"?

I don't believe the bible was divinely inspired. what the authors wrote came from within.

yeah it does, think about it. People can look at the sky and feel nothing, but if someone looks at the sky and writes a poem about it he was inspired by the sky. But where did that feeling come from? There was no interaction that the sky did for him that it didn't do for anyone else. So something inside that person made him feel inspired by what he saw.

yes