View Full Version : Mark Tyrell Explains Religious Obsession...


kronker
06-04-2008, 12:12 AM
and inability to think rationally.

'Tis not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

So said Charles Darwin.


So you've sold your home, quit your job, shunned your colleagues, abandoned your friends and family. The end of the world is nigh, and you 'know for a fact' that you are one of the chosen few who will be swept up from the 'great flood' approaching on 21st December at midnight to be flown to safety on a far off planet.

And then midnight on 21st December comes around and there is no flood. No end of the world. No flying saucer to the rescue. No nothing (to use a double negative).

What do you do? Admit you were wrong? Acknowledge that you gave up position, money, friends - for nothing? Tell yourself and others you have been a schmuck?

Not on your life.

Leon Festinger: On being stood up by the aliens

Social psychologist Leon Festinger infiltrated a flying saucer doomsday cult in the late 1950s. The members of this cult had given up everything on the premise that the world was about to self destruct and that they, because of their faith, would be the sole survivors. In the lead up to the fateful day, the cult shunned publicity and shied away from journalists. Festinger posed as a cultist and was present when the space ship failed to show up. He was curious about what would happen. How would the disappointed cultists react to the failure of their prophecy? Would they be embarrassed and humiliated? What actually happened amazed him.

Cognitive dissonance: Who are you kidding?

Now, after the non-event, the cultists suddenly wanted publicity. They wanted media attention and coverage. Why? So they could explain how their faith and obedience had helped save the planet from the flood. The aliens had spared planet earth for their sake - and now their new role was to spread the word and make us all listen. This fascinated Festinger. He observed that the real driving force behind the cultists' apparently inexplicable response was the need, not to face the awkward and uncomfortable truth and 'change their minds', but rather to 'make minds comfortable' - to smooth over the unacceptable inconsistencies.

You can't handle the truth!

Festinger coined the term 'cognitive dissonance' to describe the uncomfortable tension we feel when we experience conflicting thoughts or beliefs (cognitions), or engage in behavior that is apparently opposed to our stated beliefs. What is particularly interesting is the lengths to which people will go to reduce the inner tension without accepting that they might, in fact, be wrong. They will accept almost any form of relief, other than admitting being at fault, or mistaken.

If a person believes, for example, that they are not racist, but then discriminates against someone on the basis of race, this faces them with the discomfort of acknowledging that they are racist after all. In an attempt to escape this discomfort, they will seek to rationalize (explain away) their behavior on some other grounds, which may be spurious, but which allow them to hold on to their otherwise discredited belief.

Festinger quickly realized that our intolerance for 'cognitive dissonance' could explain many mysteries of human behavior.

How many dollars would you take to tell a lie?

In a fascinating experiment Festinger and his colleagues paid some subjects twenty dollars to tell a specific lie, while they paid another group of subjects only one dollar to do the same. Those who were paid just one dollar were far more likely to claim, after the event, that they had actually believed in the lie they were told to tell. Why? Well, because it's just so much harder to justify having done something that conflicts with your own sense of being 'an honest person' for a mere pittance. If you get more money, you can tell yourself: 'Yeah, I lied, but I got well paid! It was justified.' But for one dollar? That's not a good enough reason to lie, so what you were saying must have been true in the first place, right? Amazingly, this style of cognitive dissonance (what you might call the 'not worth the candle' dissonance) was the very type instigated and manipulated by the Chinese during the Korean war to re-engineer the beliefs of their American prisoners of war - what came to be known as 'brainwashing.'

I must believe this; else I wouldn't do it!

Of course, there are other ways to induce and shape beliefs - fear and reward, for example - but the Chinese captors during the Korean conflict worked on their prisoners more subtly (at least some of the time) by taking advantage of these cognitive dissonance effects. Some US captives were offered extra rice or candies for writing anti-American pro-Chinese essays. Some of these soldiers actually subsequently converted to communism. This seems to be exactly the same mechanism as the one dollar 'liars' coming to believe that they hadn't, in fact, told a lie. No one wants to believe they 'sold out' for a bowl of rice, a dollar or some candy. The Chinese seemed to instinctively know how cognitive dissonance works and how to use it to mold beliefs.

This is not to say that everybody will experience cognitive dissonance in every circumstance, but it does seem to happen more than we are aware. And, what is worse, it seems our brains reward us - rather like a drug addict getting their fix - when we rationalize away any information we 'don't want to hear'. We feel really good when we have successfully convinced ourselves that 'it ain't so!'.

Dishonest politicians! Never!

Emotional factors influence how we vote for our politicians much more than our careful and logical appraisal of their policies, according to Drew Westen, PhD, a professor of psychiatry and psychology at Emory University in Atlanta and author of The Political Brain: The Role of Emotion in Deciding the Fate of the Nation. This may come as little surprise to you, but what about when we learn that our favored politician may be dishonest? Do we take the trouble to really find out what they are supposed to have done, and so possibly have to change our opinions (and our vote), or do we experience that nasty cognitive dissonance and so seek to keep our minds comfortable at the possible cost of truth?

Addicted to self deceit

Westen and colleagues conducted a study using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans on the brains of staunch Democrats and staunch Republicans in the USA. The MRIs showed that the emotional areas of participants' brains lit up when they read articles suggesting their favored politician was dishonest. So far, so much what you would expect. But get this!

There was a decrease in activity in the parts of the brain that deal with reasoning when they read this damning information. So part of reducing the discomfort of cognitive dissonance may be to think less. This makes sense. The flying saucer cultists, when confronted with their unfulfilled doomsday prophecy, didn't think their way out of their dilemma, they felt their way out of it, and based their decisions on emotion.

The researchers in Westen's study found that all the participants appeared to find ways of ignoring any negative information relating to their favored politician, thus allowing themselves to hold on to their previous beliefs. When their emotional response eventually overcame the reasoning, it stimulated the brain's reward system - similar to what happens to drug addicts when they get their fix. Nobody said that a sincere search for truth would be comfortable!

Get real: Do you suffer from cognitive dissonance?

But I am not like that! I hear you cry. Well, maybe not, but remember cognitive dissonance is unconscious. You don't consciously notice that there is a discrepancy It all happens out of awareness. But the discomfort still drives you inexorably to seek relief. That's how it works.

We often assume from our incessant information gathering and analysis that human beings are truth-seeking creatures, but much evidence indicates that maintaining our emotional stability is much more important to us than sharpening up our perceptions of reality. 'It may be true - but I don't believe it!' Especially when it comes to our romantic partners, as it happens.

Much better than my ex

We like to think our lives are improving and we are making good decisions. After all, who wants to think: 'You are worse than my last boyfriend or... about the same.' It's more comfortable to justify our choices with 'reasons'. If we have chosen to be with someone new, then it would make sense to feel that this person has many positive qualities lacking in previous partners - after all we are with them, aren't we? We want to be happy with our decision.

Research shows, not surprisingly, that we tend to romanticize our current partners at the expense of our exes. A team of researchers, led by psychologist Glenn Geher of the State University of New York at New Paltz, found that most people rated their current partners as 'much better' than their exes, regardless of how partners might actually stack up against one another. This, of course, was especially true of partners who were happy in their new relationship. They just had to believe this new person was actually superior. (Hmm… makes me wonder what my ex-partners may be saying about me now to their current partners... best not go there, as they say...)

Cognitive dissonance all around... help!

If we experience cognitive dissonance over some issue, we seek to escape it in myriad ways. We believe things (or not) because to think otherwise may be too emotionally de-stabilizing. It's easier to make up reasons in your head why that report really can wait until tomorrow - why, in fact, it may be better to make a fresh start in the morning, why you should continue dating that lunatic rather than have to admit you might have been lazy or misguided. The conscious mind is employed by the unconscious mind to justify our behavior, so that our self-concepts don't have to change too radically. No one likes to be wrong.

How many people justify smoking to themselves, or never visiting an elderly relative, or any number of good things left undone, or bad things committed? Having a rationale makes what you want to do seem the right thing to do - even if it really isn't.

The cognitive dissonance dilemma: minds must be made comfortable

So what are we to make of all this? How are we to uncover truth when it seems that people who genuinely believe they are being honest are really deceiving themselves? When one part of the mind doesn't know what the other is doing? What's more, the 'self-esteem industry' may have actually encouraged our already strong natural propensity to seek relief from cognitive dissonance through rationalization. If the main imperative is to feel good about yourself at all costs (because you are 'worth it'), any behavior which indicates your character really could do with a bit more work would be likely to rouse intolerable tension - and you would be that much keener to justify yourself rather than deal with it.

I really think we need to be braver, and willing to face what are sometimes uncomfortable truths about ourselves and our behavior.

It's not just about thinking well of yourself

Interestingly, self justifications don't always have to put us in a positive light - just a consistent one. People with low self-esteem will be uncomfortable with evidence that puts them in a better light, and therefore cling to low self-evaluations by explaining away their successes.

Self indulgence or 'spirituality'?

Some people may lack the self-knowledge or objectivity to know when they are being cowardly, lazy, cruel, or attention-seeking at the expense of others. But these self-same people may believe that they are 'working on themselves' by burning incense, using the word 'spiritual' a lot, or doing all manner of things they have been conditioned to believe have to do with self-improvement. Being an official man or woman 'of the cloth' may or may not be synonymous with being 'a good person'. A superficial spirituality is readily constructed from the outward forms of special modes of dress, distinctive jargon and ritual behaviors, and makes an excellent - and even outwardly convincing - relief valve and camouflage for any cognitive dissonance arising from a mismatch between behaviors and beliefs. In this way an entire 'identity' can become a form of rationalizing away bad behavior.

The high cost of commitment exposes us to cognitive dissonance

Cognitive dissonance is essentially a matter of commitment to the choices one has made, and the ongoing need to satisfactorily justify that commitment, even in the face of convincing but conflicting evidence. This is why it can take a long time to leave a cult or an abusive relationship - or even to stop smoking. Life's commitments, whether to a job, a social cause, or a romantic partner, require heavy emotional investment, and so carry significant emotional risks. In a way, it makes sense that our brains should be hard-wired for monitoring and justifying our choices and actions - so as to avoid too much truth breaking in at once and overwhelming us. This is why we send good money after bad when a financial decision seems to be back-firing, or clutch at the straws of a fading relationship, or 'send more troops' into ill-advised military adventures.

Grow up - make cognitive dissonance work for you

I guess we can't really develop unless we start to get a grip and have some personal honesty about what really motivates us. This is part of genuine maturity. If I know I am being lazy, and can admit it to myself, that at least is a first step to correcting it. If, however, I tell myself it's more sensible to wait before vacuuming, then I can go around with a comfortable self-concept of 'being sensible' while my filthy carpets and laziness remain unchanged.

Cognitive dissonance can actually help me mature, if I can bring myself, first, to notice it (making it conscious) and second, to be more open to the message it brings me, in spite of the discomfort. As dissonance increases, providing I do not run away into self-justification, I can get a clearer and clearer sense of what has changed, and what I need to do about it.

And then I can remember what Darwin had to say about who will survive...

kronker
06-04-2008, 12:15 AM
Rep me bitches. This article explains human nature/psychology and why we fuck ourselves and how we become close minded, better than anything else ever posted in the history of this site.


I was chosen to post this article by God.


You were chosen to give me reputation until I am king of this site because its in your best interests and its more comfortable for you subconsciously.

By repping me, your life will change. Your world will become more fantastic then you could ever believe.

Lord Krishna
06-04-2008, 12:29 AM
Im feeling strong urge to rep you.

kronker
06-04-2008, 12:46 AM
Im feeling strong urge to rep you.

I would never lead one of my flock astray Lord Krishna. Come into my guiding light and feed upon my soul for you and I are one and together we will reach spiritual orgasm in space/time and in the future of our pasts.

Walk the good path like the Kronker. Lift your spirit from the debris of pain, and float into my golden palace of love.



The first step is easy and sincere. Positive rep the Kronker.

Take this step and feel the goodness radiate into your heart.

deegs
06-04-2008, 12:54 AM
let's start a cult where we all suck eachother's dicks


if i can convince enough dumb people to follow me, we'll have a religion. and it'll be nonstop blowjobs

deegs
06-04-2008, 12:54 AM
im jesus

Lord Krishna
06-04-2008, 12:56 AM
let's start a cult where we all suck eachother's dicks


if i can convince enough dumb people to follow me, we'll have a religion. and it'll be nonstop blowjobs

The scary thing is this is 100% achievable.

deegs
06-04-2008, 12:57 AM
let's get this in writing. hopefully our book is found 2000 years from now and well, you know the rest.

kronker
06-04-2008, 12:58 AM
The scary thing is this is 100% achievable.

Yeah its called the Catholic Church.

I thought we'd already gone over this.

kronker
06-04-2008, 01:00 AM
let's start a cult where we all suck eachother's dicks


if i can convince enough dumb people to follow me, we'll have a religion. and it'll be nonstop blowjobs

Did you read the whole article? It applies to not only religion but all sorts of addiction whether political affiliation to a certain party, addiction to a drug, food or person, or to your own addiction to emotional states like lazyness or anger.

deegs
06-04-2008, 01:03 AM
yea, im gonna read it in a bit. i have 10 windows open right now and enjoying all of them. im all over the place

Lord Krishna
06-04-2008, 01:03 AM
let's get this in writing. hopefully our book is found 2000 years from now and well, you know the rest.


The first line should go - Please note, this book is no written by human, but god. So when they find it after 2000 years they'll say - "ho damn, this is written by god, see the proof in first line!!!!

deegs
06-04-2008, 01:05 AM
lol! that sounds so stupid it just might work. why hasn't anyone done this before? i mean, it proves its damn self! genius. anytime anyone questions you, you can just point to our allmighty book.

our followers will have to be really really stupid, insecure, and grasping for something beyond their empty lives.

deegs
06-04-2008, 01:05 AM
wait a second

kronker
06-04-2008, 01:08 AM
lol! that sounds so stupid it just might work. why hasn't anyone done this before? i mean, it proves its damn self! genius. anytime anyone questions you, you can just point to our allmighty book.

our followers will have to be really really stupid, insecure, and grasping for something beyond their empty lives.

Read the article. It explains how you are just as guilty as they are probably.

Most people do this in some part of their life. Not necessarily though. You might not do it but most do.

deegs
06-04-2008, 01:11 AM
Read the article. It explains how you are just as guilty as they are probably.

Most people do this in some part of their life. Not necessarily though. You might not do it but most do.



i have so many flaws, it's incredible. i don't care though. i don't live in constant fear. i don't think that im better than a religious person, just much much smarter.

Lord Krishna
06-04-2008, 01:16 AM
flaws make us perfect:yes:

deegs
06-04-2008, 01:17 AM
that's what my amputee gypsie mother says

Lord Krishna
06-04-2008, 01:22 AM
your mom should post here

kronker
06-04-2008, 02:18 AM
your mom should fist here

I agree

jetjaguar
06-04-2008, 04:52 AM
<embed src="http://crackle.com/p/Blogs_and_Podcasts/Exorcism_of_a_woman_by_a_Russian_Orthodox_priest.s wf" quality="high" bgcolor="#869ca7" width="400" height="325" name="mtgPlayer" align="middle" play="true" ******"false" allowFullScreen="true" flashvars="id=1807051&mu=0&ap=0&ml=fx%3D%26fpr%3D%26o%3D15" quality="high" allowScriptAccess="sameDomain" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer"> </embed><br> <div style="font-family:"Trebuchet MS";font-size:12px;width:400px;"> From Crackle: <a href="http://crackle.com/c/Blogs_and_Podcasts/Exorcism_of_a_woman_by_a_Russian_Orthodox_priest/1807051/#ml=fx%3D%26fpr%3D%26o%3D15" title="Exorcism of a woman by a Russian Orthodox priest" style="text-decoration:none;font-weight:bold;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;word-wrap:break-word;">Exorcism of a woman by a Russian Orthodox priest</a></div><img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://counters.gigya.com/wildfire/CIMP/bT*xJmx*PTEyMTI1NTE*NTI3NTUmcHQ9MTIxMjU1MTQ2MjY*Ni ZwPTEyMjE*MSZkPSZuPSZnPTI=.jpg" />

kronker
06-04-2008, 05:28 AM
<embed src="http://crackle.com/p/Blogs_and_Podcasts/Exorcism_of_a_woman_by_a_Russian_Orthodox_priest.s wf" quality="high" bgcolor="#869ca7" width="400" height="325" name="mtgPlayer" align="middle" play="true" ******"false" allowFullScreen="true" flashvars="id=1807051&mu=0&ap=0&ml=fx%3D%26fpr%3D%26o%3D15" quality="high" allowScriptAccess="sameDomain" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer"> </embed><br> <div style="font-family:"Trebuchet MS";font-size:12px;width:400px;"> From Crackle: <a href="http://crackle.com/c/Blogs_and_Podcasts/Exorcism_of_a_woman_by_a_Russian_Orthodox_priest/1807051/#ml=fx%3D%26fpr%3D%26o%3D15" title="Exorcism of a woman by a Russian Orthodox priest" style="text-decoration:none;font-weight:bold;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;word-wrap:break-word;">Exorcism of a woman by a Russian Orthodox priest</a></div><img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://counters.gigya.com/wildfire/CIMP/bT*xJmx*PTEyMTI1NTE*NTI3NTUmcHQ9MTIxMjU1MTQ2MjY*Ni ZwPTEyMjE*MSZkPSZuPSZnPTI=.jpg" />


Wow thats pathetic.

Good posting.

kronker
06-04-2008, 08:07 PM
Bump

kronker
06-07-2008, 10:03 AM
I thought this would get a greater discussion.


Very interesting read.

ZiLLa
06-07-2008, 03:32 PM
I thought this would get a greater discussion.


Very interesting read.

Religious people don't like to discuss anything that can't be "proved" by the bible.

lancaster
06-08-2008, 01:52 AM
Kronker, most of that article is taken from a book by J.A.C Brown - Techniques of Persuasion pub. 1963. If you're interested in this sort of stuff it's worth a read. I've got a copy on my bookshelf but you may be able to find it in your library system.

kronker
06-08-2008, 06:43 AM
Kronker, most of that article is taken from a book by J.A.C Brown - Techniques of Persuasion pub. 1963. If you're interested in this sort of stuff it's worth a read. I've got a copy on my bookshelf but you may be able to find it in your library system.

Good posting. Will do. Thankee.

xcept68
06-08-2008, 09:26 AM
Christians cannot be possessed. We are unpluckable from God's hand. Once we are in his hand we are His for eternity.

kronker
06-09-2008, 05:25 AM
Christians cannot be possessed. We are unpluckable from God's hand. Once we are in his hand we are His for eternity.

You seem to be posting in the wrong thread. This is about human psychology and its relation to religious propaganda.

YouSlayMe
06-09-2008, 03:42 PM
let's start a cult where we all suck eachother's dicks


if i can convince enough dumb people to follow me, we'll have a religion. and it'll be nonstop blowjobs

does this mean i will have to grow a cock to join?

:popcorn:

Resin
06-09-2008, 07:53 PM
stupid ass thread.

kronker
06-09-2008, 09:16 PM
stupid ass thread.

It's for people that graduated highschool and have a reading level above grade 7.

kronker
06-09-2008, 09:16 PM
does this mean i will have to grow a cock to join?

:popcorn:

No. You just need to take hormone replacement therapy and enlarge your clitoris.

jetjaguar
06-09-2008, 09:23 PM
Christians cannot be possessed. We are unpluckable from God's hand. Once we are in his hand we are His for eternity.


http://www.best-horror-movies.com/images/Exorcist-head-spin.jpg

Bloodshot {ADR}
06-09-2008, 09:32 PM
lol, he knows everything.

Bloodshot {ADR}
06-09-2008, 09:33 PM
Don't try to make sense out of life, it drove Einstein crazy. Just die happy.

YouSlayMe
06-10-2008, 07:45 PM
No. You just need to take hormone replacement therapy and enlarge your clitoris.

enlarge my clit? omg, can i actually do that? that would make orgasms the ultimate max. wait, it won't grow out like a peen, will it?

kronker
06-11-2008, 12:57 AM
Yes you can.

YouSlayMe
06-11-2008, 03:03 PM
i thinYes you can.

fuck that shit. the pic you gave is deleted now :(
but thanks to ferg, i can only imagine...

:sifone:

kronker
06-17-2008, 12:46 AM
i thin

fuck that shit. the pic you gave is deleted now :(
but thanks to ferg, i can only imagine...

:sifone:

Fuck. Whatever.

weeb
06-17-2008, 07:40 AM
Christians cannot be possessed. We are unpluckable from God's hand. Once we are in his hand we are His for eternity.

not every thread in this section is about your crazy god jargon.


good posting kronker, it pretty much sums up close-mindedness=stupidity (less thinking).

Bloodshot {ADR}
06-17-2008, 07:51 AM
close-mindedness=stupidity (less thinking).

Lol, I'm open to anything and everything even if I don't believe it, I'll listen and take it seriously. You're only open to "prove it."

who's closed minded?

weeb
06-17-2008, 07:55 AM
Lol, I'm open to anything and everything even if I don't believe it, I'll listen and take it seriously. You're only open to "prove it."

who's closed minded?

the fact that i am atheist and have been raised in a religious family is proof enough that i am open minded.

i'm not telling you to not believe in something, i'm just saying you're a fucking moron for believing that zombie is his own father and you have to telepathically tell him you accept him so you can go the dimension of heaven.

Bloodshot {ADR}
06-17-2008, 08:02 AM
the fact that i am atheist and have been raised in a religious family is proof enough that i am open minded.

I had it shoved down my throat as a kid and that only made me resent it, so the fact that you say it made you open minded is a double edged sword. it only opened your mind if you took it seriously, and I don't mean as a child.

I found faith all on my own, if you feel you don't need a savior, power to you. I just see my mortality and see NO point in life without something on the otherside. Yeah I can do good, but why? I need something more.

Through argueing with you, I don't want that sand in your vagina turning into a pearl.

weeb
06-17-2008, 08:07 AM
I found faith all on my own, if you feel you don't need a savior, power to you. I just see my mortality and see NO point in life without something on the otherside. Yeah I can do good, but why? I need something more.

wow... the epitome of why people turn to religion. you can't accept that there are things out of your control, and maybe there's nothing after life, so you rationalize a completely insane belief in the bible so you may go on with the rest of your day thinking, "hey, i did good today because it's in god's divine plan. i'm going to heaven because i have the spirit in me."

all we know is here and now, the rest is just moonshine.

Bloodshot {ADR}
06-17-2008, 08:11 AM
wow... the epitome of why people turn to religion. you can't accept that there are things out of your control, and maybe there's nothing after life, so you rationalize a completely insane belief in the bible so you may go on with the rest of your day thinking, "hey, i did good today because it's in god's divine plan. i'm going to heaven because i have the spirit in me."

"all we know is here and now, the rest is just moonshine."

You're right, I'm sure Hitler will suffer the same face as the pope. That just doesn't make sense to me. You make it sound so easy, what I say is right, is not what I feel. It took me doing wrong to understand right.

You don't see life as pointless if you cease to exist? Spirituality have no meaning?

lancaster
06-17-2008, 09:46 AM
Bloodshot, why do you feel the need to find meaning where there is none?

Bloodshot {ADR}
06-17-2008, 09:55 AM
Bloodshot, why do you feel the need to find meaning where there is none?

Because that's all that's keeping me sane.

lancaster
06-17-2008, 10:03 AM
Because that's all that's keeping me sane.

I can understand that. You feel the need to believe in something bigger than yourself.

So why, out of all the religions available to you, did you choose Christianity? Was it because your friends / family are Christian? The convenience of a close by church? A girl you had a crush on went to church so you joined too, hoping she'd notice you?

Bloodshot {ADR}
06-17-2008, 10:09 AM
I can understand that. You feel the need to believe in something bigger than yourself.

So why, out of all the religions available to you, did you choose Christianity? Was it because your friends / family are Christian? The convenience of a close by church? A girl you had a crush on went to church so you joined too, hoping she'd notice you?

My family being Christian is why I wasn't. I didn't used to be religious, my actions out of spite for what was shoved down my throat opened my eyes. To insanity? maybe. To the truth? Who knows. All I know is life makes sense to me, now.

I see how I could be looked at as crazy, Tom Cruise has very strong faith, or atleast he pretends to. In the eyes of an unbeliever I am no more sane than him.

Bloodshot {ADR}
06-17-2008, 10:10 AM
The bible says everyone thought Moses was crazy. maybe strong faith is crazy. Because it's out of the ordinary for sure.

GiantRobotDelux
06-17-2008, 05:30 PM
The bible says everyone thought Moses was crazy. maybe strong faith is crazy. Because it's out of the ordinary for sure.



The dude goes up on a mountain and comes back with stone tablets from god, sees his people are worshiping a golden bull, smashes the tablets and tells everyone to kill eachother.

yup.. nothing crazy about that. lol
seriously.. that shit is lunacy.

weeb
06-17-2008, 05:33 PM
Because that's all that's keeping me sane.

so it's a crutch, a drug. you have to have religion or else you feel insignificant and meaningless. i get it, it's incredibly pathetic, but i get it.

kronker
06-22-2008, 06:47 AM
the fact that i am atheist and have been raised in a religious family is proof enough that i am open minded.

i'm not telling you to not believe in something, i'm just saying you're a fucking moron for believing that zombie is his own father and you have to telepathically tell him you accept him so you can go the dimension of heaven.

You are actually self pwning right now.

The article talks about how people get beliefs and then follow them no matter if they are proven wrong or not.


You can be blindly atheist as well. You can firmly believe theres no such thing beyond what you can see, hear, feel, smell or taste. But what if we have other senses we don't know about?

What if theirs an entire different world we can't see, hear, feel, taste, or smell? And if you're atheist then you completely disregard this and therefore are holding onto your beliefs which are limiting you.

It's like my buddy doesn't believe in hypnotism. I show him someone being hypnotized on tape. Still doesn't believe. I show him someone being hypnotized in real life, stil ldoesn't believe. I tell him when he's fallen into a hypnotic state playing video games and I snap it out of him and he still doesn't beleive me because of his belief.

We all have our own interpretations of the world.

kronker
06-22-2008, 06:49 AM
so it's a crutch, a drug. you have to have religion or else you feel insignificant and meaningless. i get it, it's incredibly pathetic, but i get it.

I really dislike the "crutch" argument.


If I believe I'm superman because i read it in a book and because of this it allows me to talk to anyone, completely calm and confident, and allows me to come back from any problem in my life, any difficulty, any phsyical injury, any food drought, any slavery, any possible problem, and I become a billionaire and I'm happy. Or I'm just a regular wage earner but I'm the happiest person in the world.

But its a crutch...


Then whats wrong with a crutch?

Crutch's are good. Someone who breaks their leg and doesn't have a crutch, can't walk.

Judoka
06-22-2008, 08:15 AM
I really dislike the "crutch" argument.


If I believe I'm superman because i read it in a book and because of this it allows me to talk to anyone, completely calm and confident, and allows me to come back from any problem in my life, any difficulty, any phsyical injury, any food drought, any slavery, any possible problem, and I become a billionaire and I'm happy. Or I'm just a regular wage earner but I'm the happiest person in the world.

But its a crutch...


Then whats wrong with a crutch?

Crutch's are good. Someone who breaks their leg and doesn't have a crutch, can't walk.

So broken people need religion. People who are fine with what the are do not.

weeb
06-22-2008, 07:28 PM
I really dislike the "crutch" argument.


If I believe I'm superman because i read it in a book and because of this it allows me to talk to anyone, completely calm and confident, and allows me to come back from any problem in my life, any difficulty, any phsyical injury, any food drought, any slavery, any possible problem, and I become a billionaire and I'm happy. Or I'm just a regular wage earner but I'm the happiest person in the world.

But its a crutch...


Then whats wrong with a crutch?

Crutch's are good. Someone who breaks their leg and doesn't have a crutch, can't walk.

you can't look as religion as just somebody's personal faith. religious people are overbearing and have too much power in this world. they try to project their views onto the rest of us, and their views often suck. it troubles me to know our presidents are christians.

kronker
06-23-2008, 01:01 AM
So broken people need religion. People who are fine with what the are do not.

It has nothing to do with being broken. You see so many people who are broken who are atheists.

You see a lot of people who are broken who are Christians.

I'm just saying make powerful beliefs in your psyche.

If you're atheist and don't believe in a higher power but you believe in the power of your own mind and of this whole world and humanity and believe you can do anything, then you have powerful beliefs.

If you're an atheist and think the world is shit and theres no hope and everyone should just get as much as they can and do whatever they can to survive even if it hurts others and that were all just vicious animals trying to get by and only the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, then you have dismepowering beliefs.

If you beleive that the world is a bad place, that everyone is a sinner and that you must be a slave to others to be a good person and go onto an afterlife, then you have a disempowering belief.

If you believe that theres a god watching over you and anything you do is for a reason and you choose to follow a positive lifestyle and help others and be successful yourself because you believe god wants you to do that, then you have empowering beliefs.


Theres a lot of new books written on the power of the myth. Both from Psychogical perspective and from religous perspective. How the beliefs people form in their head, dictate how they live and how much success/failure and joy/pain they experience.

Nothing is either good nor bad, but thinking makes it so.

kronker
06-23-2008, 01:07 AM
you can't look as religion as just somebody's personal faith. religious people are overbearing and have too much power in this world. they try to project their views onto the rest of us, and their views often suck. it troubles me to know our presidents are christians.

Weak minded Christians who have no self esteem and are fearful push their beliefs on others. Most of the time they think they are doing right and are trying to help others. They can see the forest from the trees though because their whole mindset is to view everything through Christian eyes.

So their mind finds evidence of Christianity everywhere and finds evidence of sinners and blames the problems on the sinners. They have a black and white mentality.

Many atheists have a black and white mentality as well. You're either religious and an idiot or Atheist and smart and independent and strong. This view is totally black and white.

Life is full of gray. Many of the top wage earners, and most of the happiest people in the world understand that theirs gray in the world and not everyone will believe their beliefs and they're okay with that.

Just because someone doesn't believe what you believe, does that make them bad or good. They're just themselves. It also doesn't reflect on you unless you make it reflect on you. You can choose to just accept them and their beliefs or you can choose to judge them and do exactly what you think they're doing to you.


It's different for Americans I guess because Americans have a ridiculous amount of narrow minded, black and white Christians, but I know theres a ton out there who just accept people of other religions or beliefs.

weeb
06-23-2008, 01:12 AM
Weak minded Christians who have no self esteem and are fearful push their beliefs on others. Most of the time they think they are doing right and are trying to help others. They can see the forest from the trees though because their whole mindset is to view everything through Christian eyes.

So their mind finds evidence of Christianity everywhere and finds evidence of sinners and blames the problems on the sinners. They have a black and white mentality.

Many atheists have a black and white mentality as well. You're either religious and an idiot or Atheist and smart and independent and strong. This view is totally black and white.

Life is full of gray. Many of the top wage earners, and most of the happiest people in the world understand that theirs gray in the world and not everyone will believe their beliefs and they're okay with that.

Just because someone doesn't believe what you believe, does that make them bad or good. They're just themselves. It also doesn't reflect on you unless you make it reflect on you. You can choose to just accept them and their beliefs or you can choose to judge them and do exactly what you think they're doing to you.


It's different for Americans I guess because Americans have a ridiculous amount of narrow minded, black and white Christians, but I know theres a ton out there who just accept people of other religions or beliefs.
live in texas, then try to speak on christianity.

christian teachers, christian officials, christian fucking everything. and they are all stupid. you can try to tell me that beliefs are gray, but they are stupid. you're just more accepting of them because you haven't developed a chip on your shoulder like me :wah:

lancaster
06-23-2008, 03:12 AM
:popcorn: good posting on all sides here

kronker
06-23-2008, 05:59 AM
live in texas, then try to speak on christianity.

christian teachers, christian officials, christian fucking everything. and they are all stupid. you can try to tell me that beliefs are gray, but they are stupid. you're just more accepting of them because you haven't developed a chip on your shoulder like me :wah:

Which is what I already said.

And I wouldn't be able to live in Texas.

kronker
07-09-2008, 08:54 PM
BUMP FOR D.O.