Wondering what sort of effect swimming has on explosive power in the legs? someone said swimming lengthens the quadricep, i would think this would limit explosiveness?

I don't really know, but if I had to guess I would say it would be the same as any resistance in that if you do it as fast as you can and in short burst it will improve your explosiveness, but I can't say for sure.

honestly, anything that is considered endurance work involving the legs will rob you of explosiveness. even though you can swim "fast" it's bathing your fast twitch fibers in lactic acid if the volume is high enough. fast twitch fibers hate endurance work. they are just not efficient at it. the body's goal is to be the most efficient it can, so the way it solves that, is to begin to transform those muscle types to the more endurance suited slow twitch.

Go with deegs' answer it's better.

honestly, anything that is considered endurance work involving the legs will rob you of explosiveness. even though you can swim "fast" it's bathing your fast twitch fibers in lactic acid if the volume is high enough. fast twitch fibers hate endurance work. they are just not efficient at it. the body's goal is to be the most efficient it can, so the way it solves that, is to begin to transform those muscle types to the more endurance suited slow twitch.

anyway, if you HAVE to swim, try to do explosive intervals with plenty of rest in between and don't swim to often. perhaps use a stroke that involves the upper body more as well.

honestly, anything that is considered endurance work involving the legs will rob you of explosiveness. even though you can swim "fast" it's bathing your fast twitch fibers in lactic acid if the volume is high enough. fast twitch fibers hate endurance work. they are just not efficient at it. the body's goal is to be the most efficient it can, so the way it solves that, is to begin to transform those muscle types to the more endurance suited slow twitch.


+1

back strokes you dont even have to use your legs that could be a good stroke to use if you trying to use your legs as little as possible

sprinters get in shape with tempo runs. which basically is running a certain distance in intervals with huge rest in between. so that they are fresh for the next one and never see a decrease in speed. once the performance starts to suffer, they'll call it quits.

usually they'll use extensive temp - which is below 70%(i think) of best time and intensive tempo - which is up to 90%

intervals are usually done at a rate of 1:1 all the way up to 1:6, meaning 1 unit of activity up to 6 units of rest

volume is always kept low

sprinters get in shape with tempo runs. which basically is running a certain distance in intervals with huge rest in between. so that they are fresh for the next one and never see a decrease in speed. once the performance starts to suffer, they'll call it quits.

usually they'll use extensive temp - which is below 70%(i think) of best time and intensive tempo - which is up to 90%

intervals are usually done at a rate of 1:1 all the way up to 1:6, meaning 1 unit of activity up to 6 units of rest

volume is always kept low

Exactly I don't know how we got on sprinters and I don't care track & field is badass.

Spinters also run shorter distances to increase their explosiveness such as 30 meters. The shorter the distance the less reactive strength is involved allowing the sprinter to focus more on their explosive strength.

Kelly Bagget points out in the Vertical Jump Bible that the people with the most fast twitch muscle fibers are couch potatos because they aren't active at a low intensity enough to convert their fast twitch to slow twitch fibers.

lol i went off on a tangent trying to show that perhaps swimming (or anything lsd) was not the best way to get in shape cos it'll slow you down

Kelly Bagget points out in the Vertical Jump Bible that the people with the most fast twitch muscle fibers are couch potatos because they aren't active at a low intensity enough to convert their fast twitch to slow twitch fibers.

maybe that's why blacks dominate the sprints. because they are lazy

From an MMA/Boxing/Kickboxing etc perspective would training for explosiveness be the way to go? I ask because it seems that it focuses a lot on high intensity but not for long periods. Wouldn't this be bad for cardio?

How can you train to develop explosiveness and endurance?

rob, the consensus seems to be that if you are fighting, you need a mix of both. the problem with explosiveness is that the body will always lean towards slow twitch fibers over fast twitch. it's more efficient that way. in fighting, anyway, i think it's more important to be aerobically fit than explosive. you can always outlast the other guy.

anywho, i don't think that you have to choose one, man. train for both and you'll see improvements in both. it also depends on where you are currently. if you have a good aerobic base, but are slow, train to get faster and more powerful and vice versa.

i think stuff similar to ross enamait's is good for fighters. even things like crossfit which alot of people don't seem to like, but i think that it's perfect for gpp. they are a good mix of aerobic conditioning/strength/power.

you need to work on anaerobic, and aerobic rob when it comes to fighting in any combat sport.

Yeah guys I understand that you have to train both.

I only asked because from what I understood after reading this thread is that endurance/cardio work converts your fast twitch muscle fibres into slow twitch to handle the load of endurance activities.

Yeah guys I understand that you have to train both.

I only asked because from what I understood after reading this thread is that endurance/cardio work converts your fast twitch muscle fibres into slow twitch to handle the load of endurance activities.


it's true, but it can be avoided. if you are doing lsd, then the tempo must be slow enough whereas the slow twitch fibres can handle the load and don't require the recruiting of fast twitch fibres. combine this with explosive activities, plyometrics, and heavy lifting, and you should be ok.

anyway, unless you are actually wanting to sprint faster or jump higher, i doubt it would affect you that much in a fight.

Reason i asked is I am trying to increase my vertical jump for basketball, but also increase my paddling endurance for surfing. I think i found a solution though, there is this stroke where you hold a bouy between your legs and your legs just float and you do all arms. Gonna do that more instead of regular freestyle.

Fighting is mainly anaerobic and requires intense interval training. So whether you choose to do this on concrete or in a pool, you want to go balls to the wall for a little bit then jogging pace for a little bit and repeat. The jog helps with lactate clearance, EPOC, and recovery from the sprint so you are ready to sprint again soon. Sitting around after may be good for sprinting, but fighting not so much. Specificity (training imitating competition) is the highest priority. Anaerobic glycolysis will get you up to about 2 minutes (although fighting would require more of these at shorter intervals than prolonging one). Aerobic training like rocky-style long jogs should probably be done half as often. You are not sustaining a low level pace for a long time in a fight.

Why train aerobically at all? Aenarobic conditioning improves aerobic conditioning, but not the other way around. The only time in a fight where you're not doing something anaerobic is when your laying in guard or just circling as soon as you throw a strike or explode into a submission/sweep/scramble it becomes aenarobic.

Why train aerobically at all? Aenarobic conditioning improves aerobic conditioning, but not the other way around. The only time in a fight where you're not doing something anaerobic is when your laying in guard or just circling as soon as you throw a strike or explode into a submission/sweep/scramble it becomes aenarobic.

Mostly aerobic would help the body's recovery/reduce soreness possibly through improved circulation, and flushing out the metabolic waste. If you want to lay and pray it could help lol.

Mostly aerobic would help the body's recovery/reduce soreness possibly through improved circulation, and flushing out the metabolic waste. If you want to lay and pray it could help lol.

Stretching will get rid of soreness. I've never heard that stuff about aerobic exercise, do you have a source for it?

Stretching will get rid of soreness. I've never heard that stuff about aerobic exercise, do you have a source for it?

Its basic physiology, blood delivers nutrients and removes waste, aerobic exercise=more blood flow. It helps expedite the body's healing process.

I wouldnt use wikipedia for any citation in school but here is something I found there.
It should be the same in any exercise physiology text book.

In addition to the health benefits of aerobic exercise, there are numerous performance benefits:

* Increased storage of energy molecules such as fats and carbohydrates within the muscles, allowing for increased endurance
* Neovascularization of the muscle sarcomeres to increase blood flow through the muscles
* Increasing speed at which aerobic metabolism is activated within muscles, allowing a greater portion of energy for intense exercise to be generated aerobically
* Improving the ability of muscles to use fats during exercise, preserving intramuscular glycogen
* Enhancing the speed at which muscles recover from high intensity exercise

Thanks

Swimming is mainly huge arm movements with yer legs going "tweedle-dee" behind you....



Yes..?

Swimming is mainly huge arm movements with yer legs going "tweedle-dee" behind you....



Yes..?

They both contribute a pretty good amount. Your point?

swimming is more legs than arms

and as far as aerobic exercise goes - its more important in boxing where you're moving around more for longer periods of time and you're throwing wayyyy more punches. MMA is mostly explosive movements.

They both contribute a pretty good amount. Your point?

if the legs are being used in a more aerobic way, then it would be detrimental to explosive muscular power

if the legs are being used in a more aerobic way, then it would be detrimental to explosive muscular power

True.

if the legs are being used in a more aerobic way, then it would be detrimental to explosive muscular power

Completely agree. But the trade off can be beneficial to an extent because full recovery isn't going to happen during a fight so aerobic development will aid in the lactate clearance.

If we are still somewhat talking about fight training as well in addition to swimming.

Wondering what sort of effect swimming has on explosive power in the legs? someone said swimming lengthens the quadricep, i would think this would limit explosiveness?

Another point to consider is that stretching also lengthens the quads, and this is considered a good thing. Personally, I don't see how swimming would adversely affect the muscles except to limit your explosiveness in the absence of other training methods. As above, swimming is a great recovery tool (used by rugby, afl teams etc) as well.

Speaking of stretching...I need to start doing it but have no idea what all i need to know...

On swimming: It depends how you do it(pace). IF you want to be more powerful overall, then swim as if you are sprinting. If not, then swim as though you are jogging. Being more aerobically fit will lessen your strength and power. Make no mistake about it. The tradeoff can be beneficial to some degree though

Stretching: Very over-hyped. There is litttle proof strecthing does anythng besides make you more flexible. If you want a rubber guard then stretching is good. But there is not enough information to assume stretching before activity is a good method of injury prevention. Only time you should stretch after you warmup, and get a light sweat going at least.

On swimming: It depends how you do it(pace). IF you want to be more powerful overall, then swim as if you are sprinting. If not, then swim as though you are jogging. Being more aerobically fit will lessen your strength and power. Make no mistake about it. The tradeoff can be beneficial to some degree though

Stretching: Very over-hyped. There is litttle proof strecthing does anythng besides make you more flexible. If you want a rubber guard then stretching is good. But there is not enough information to assume stretching before activity is a good method of injury prevention. Only time you should stretch after you warmup, and get a light sweat going at least.

That's exactly what I said at the beginning, but no one agreed.