The Muslim Jesus

[Resin]

Summary:"The Muslim Jesus is not divine, but a humble servant of God. He was not crucified - Islam insists that the story of the killing of Jesus is false. He is, as it were, Jesus as he might have been without St Paul or St Augustine or the Council of Nicaea."




part 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKX2pde2X_4
part 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQn-y17nZ-8
part 3:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jOIDJVC8gU
part 4:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw_URVvWh5w
part 5:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKofAr0sYoA

[xcept68]

The book of Mary covers this and includes the fact that Jesus has a Heavenly Father and earthly mother, however no Muslim I have asked can reveal to me the purpose of the Muslim Jesus having such parents when Muhammad, who is a higher prophet than the Jesus portrayed in the Koran only has two earthly parents. What is the purpose of a mere prophet, who isn't as high up as Muhammad to have been born from the Holy Ghost and Mary?

Also yes, there is a verse that states that the Muslim Jesus didn't die upon the cross and that Christians are deceived but that God took him. Who is this Jesus? As Jesus states in His word, of which He fulfilled (not the Koran), but Jesus fulfilled the law in the Bible. This Jesus says... Who do they say that I Am? Meaning if you say Jesus is a different Jesus than He is, then you can be in danger of worshipping another God. Of course the Bible also states that if anyone, even an angel brings you a word other than God's word in the Bible, let him be condemned. Muhammad had received a word from the angel Gabriel supposedly in a cave. Joseph Smith had received word from an angel moroni and Jesus was supposedly in the back behind this angel. Both of these prophets were given the word that all other religions are corrupt and that theirs is the only true religion to establish God's truth on the earth again. Very similar backgrounds? Again, there are many errors in the Book of Mormon, as well as the Koran. Steel wasn't around the time the BoM states, and horses and cattle weren't indiginous to the U.S. The Koran states that semen comes from a man's kidneys, and that God put mountains in the ground to act as tent pegs to keep the earth from shaking, and that King Solomon conversed with ants. Of course the biggest one is who they say Christ is. So, this is where you must use your own spiritual discernment and reason. What makes more sense to you? What offers you salvation and hope?

[lancaster]

Is anyone else amused how xcept68 can see the contradictions and general silliness in the Book of Mormon and the Koran, but is unable to see the same in the Bible?

[Resin]

until something happens in you're existence then most of the mindset will remain the same until otherwise.

[xcept68]

Is anyone else amused how xcept68 can see the contradictions and general silliness in the Book of Mormon and the Koran, but is unable to see the same in the Bible?

I'm more amused how you state that there are all these problems and contradictions, but I have yet to know what contradictions and problems you are actually referring to.

Maybe you can shed some light on it for me? Thanks in advance

[lancaster]

I'm more amused how you state that there are all these problems and contradictions, but I have yet to know what contradictions and problems you are actually referring to.

Maybe you can shed some light on it for me? Thanks in advance

How about we start with Genesis. Chapter 1 On the fifth day God creates all the animals and then humans (both male and female).

In Chapter 2 he retells it, but creates Adam first then creates all the animals which poor Adam has to name. After the animals have been named then God creates Eve.

So were animals or man created first?

And while we're looking at the first 7 days, the sun wasn't created until the fourth day. Given that it is the sun that gives us days, we can't possibly have any days until the sun is around anyway.

[xcept68]

How about we start with Genesis. Chapter 1 On the fifth day God creates all the animals and then humans (both male and female).

In Chapter 2 he retells it, but creates Adam first then creates all the animals which poor Adam has to name. After the animals have been named then God creates Eve.

So were animals or man created first?

And while we're looking at the first 7 days, the sun wasn't created until the fourth day. Given that it is the sun that gives us days, we can't possibly have any days until the sun is around anyway.

So are you going to go over the entire skepticsannotated bible with me?

Google the words, contradictions of Genesis 1 and Genesis 2... hmmm.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v18/i4/genesis.asp

Chapter 2 mentions only things directly relevant to the creation of Adam and Eve and their life in the garden God prepared specially for them

[xcept68]

God created light first... which designated the first day. There were no people or any living thing upon the earth yet to record it as a day, when in fact. God separated the light from the darkness and called the the light day and the darkness night. That creates the first day. Nice try! This is yet another reason why evolution doesn't fit within the Bible, and the Creation account in Genesis. For the plants were created first, and if there was alot of space between the sun being created, then the plants would have all died without photosynthesis right?

[lancaster]

So are you going to go over the entire skepticsannotated bible with me?

Huh? I'm going over what I remember when I was reading the bible.


http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v18/i4/genesis.asp

You are very eager to use google and then just provide a link. How about you think about my question and then answer it for yourself, rather than looking elsewhere for your answers.

[xcept68]

Huh? I'm going over what I remember when I was reading the bible.



You are very eager to use google and then just provide a link. How about you think about my question and then answer it for yourself, rather than looking elsewhere for your answers.

You want me to make things up much like you do? No, I'm really not helping anyone by making things up, I'd rather give a reference, however if you aren't interested in reading them, that's fine, just say so. I will stop providing them unless you ask for them.

The reason that Christians use the Bible is because it provides truth. If it doesn't square with the Word of God, it probably isn't truth. (Now don't take that out of context and say something silly like are computers in the Bible etc.) I'm sure you understand what this statement means when we say ultimate truth in order to measure all other supposed truths against.

[lancaster]

Making stuff up? You mean using my brain to ask questions and think rationally? I have read all the references you've given (with the exception of the one on evolution because the author didn't know what evolution was).

I'm interested in your answers. I'm not interested in reading an article by someone who has "made things up". I'll be happy with your answers. After all "God is not the author of confusion" (1 Corinthians) so the bible should be understandable by all.

Have you read the two references that I posted on there not being any historical evidence for Jesus? They are only short. What did you think of them?

[xcept68]

Making stuff up? You mean using my brain to ask questions and think rationally? I have read all the references you've given (with the exception of the one on evolution because the author didn't know what evolution was).

I'm interested in your answers. I'm not interested in reading an article by someone who has "made things up". I'll be happy with your answers. After all "God is not the author of confusion" (1 Corinthians) so the bible should be understandable by all.

Have you read the two references that I posted on there not being any historical evidence for Jesus? They are only short. What did you think of them?

Where are they at? They aren't in this topic.

[lancaster]

Page 2 of the Nibiru thread. But here they are again

http://www.jdstone.org/cr/files/nohistoricalevidenceofjesus.html

http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/appendixd.html

[kronker]

Is anyone else amused how xcept68 can see the contradictions and general silliness in the Book of Mormon and the Koran, but is unable to see the same in the Bible?

I am.


Then I realized its called fanaticism and brainwashing. It's his belief and so his brain finds any way to defend it. Everyone does this with their belief to a certain degree. Generally the harder you push against someone's core beliefs, the harder they push back. It's human nature.

[kronker]

So are you going to go over the entire skepticsannotated bible with me?

Google the words, contradictions of Genesis 1 and Genesis 2... hmmm.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v18/i4/genesis.asp

Chapter 2 mentions only things directly relevant to the creation of Adam and Eve and their life in the garden God prepared specially for them

hahahaahaha. You're last post was asking for him to, then he doesit, and then you ask him in a sarcastic way, if he's going to do what you just asked him to.

[kronker]

You want me to make things up much like you do? No, I'm really not helping anyone by making things up, I'd rather give a reference, however if you aren't interested in reading them, that's fine, just say so. I will stop providing them unless you ask for them.

The reason that Christians use the Bible is because it provides truth. If it doesn't square with the Word of God, it probably isn't truth. (Now don't take that out of context and say something silly like are computers in the Bible etc.) I'm sure you understand what this statement means when we say ultimate truth in order to measure all other supposed truths against.

Er, do you ever think that the bible is just a ancient, historical, self help document that has been adapted many times over 2000 years to help people control other people and use it for power, AND for others to use to inspire their people for good?

What if Jesus was just a philosopher? Wouldn't that change your ability to allow other self help philosophies, and other people's personal philosophies in general, into your life and appreciate and try to understand their beliefs instead of just trying to find ways in which yours is "better" and the real "word of God"?

I personally think that if you believe in the bible as a philosophical document, you no longer have to be so rigid and dogmatic in your thinking and it allows you to be more easy going and loving to others who don't believe in the same exact religion as you do.

Thinking of it as a philosophical document allows you to see the bias in the writing. The hatred of gays(historical/societal issue, NOT THE WORD OF GOD) for instance. Promoting slaves to work as good slaves to their masters(societal issue from that time period).

[xcept68]

Page 2 of the Nibiru thread. But here they are again

http://www.jdstone.org/cr/files/nohistoricalevidenceofjesus.html

http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/appendixd.html

Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus recorded information pertaining to Jesus, thus removing the only supporting source for His existence as being in the New Testament. In 115 A.D., Tactius wrote about the great fire in Rome, "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace.

It is believed by some scholars that Tactius gained his information about Christ from official records, perhaps actual reports written by Pilate. Tactius also wrote about the burning of the Jerusalem temple by the Romans in 70 A.D. The Christians are mentioned as a group that were connected with these events. "All we can gather from this reference is that Tactius was also aware of the existence of Christians other than in the context of their presence in Rome," states Habermas. Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas, chief secretary of Emperor Hadrian, wrote, "Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from the City." Chrestus is a variant spelling of Christ. Suetonius refers to a wave of riots that broke out in a large Jewish community in Rome during the year 49 A.D. As a result, the Jews were banished from the city.

Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, a member of a priestly family and who became a Pharisee at the age of 19, became the court historian for Emperor Vespasian. In the Antiquities, he wrote about many persons and events of first century Palestine. He makes two references to Jesus. The first reference is believed associated with the Apostle James. "...he brother of Jesus, who was called Christ." He also wrote, "At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and (he) was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive, accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." These historical writings predated the Old Testament. Josephus died in 97 A.D.

The Talmud, which consists of Jewish traditions handed down orally from generation to generation, was organized by Rabbi Akiba before his death in 135 A.D. The writings in the Talmud embrace the legal, ritual and exegetical commentaries that have developed right down to contemporary times. In Sanhedrin 43a, reference to Jesus is found. "On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy

Records of the Temple of Jerusalem where destroyed and history has not been able to verify that Caiaphas, like Christ, existed. If no evidence existed of Caiaphas when the New Testament was embraced by the Christians of the second century, then it would have been a fact lost to history. But now, 1,950 years after the crucifixion of Jesus, a public works project building a water park in November 1990 accidentally uncovered an ancient burial cave. The inscription in the burial chamber was that of the Caiaphas family. The Caiaphas name had only been mentioned in the New Testament and by Flavius Josephus, no Jewish records have been found with Caiaphas' name linked to being the high priest. The remains of a 60-year-old man were found in the burial cave that may have been the High Priest Caiaphas. The inscription on his craved ossuary, fit for a high priest, was the name Yehosef bar Qafa (Joseph, son of Caiaphas). Coins found in the cave were bronze minted in 42/43 (C.E.) during the reign of Herod Agrippa I. These are similar to images of coins found on the Shroud of Turin Ð believed by many scientists to be the burial shroud of Christ.

http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/naij3.html

Anyways... I can see everyone in here becoming more and more hostile towards my belief. I have yet to see your views and put them upon the chopping block so to speak. Anyone willing to do so?

[lancaster]

Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus recorded information pertaining to JesusYes this proves that Christians existed in the 1st century AD. Nobody disputes that.

Jewish historian Flavius Josephus Not contemporary, and the quoted passage is acknowledged in the Catholic encylopedia to be a forgery (earlier copies of the manuscript have been found without that passage).

The Talmud, ... "On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy

Read the source, there are two "Yeshua"s. One ben Pandira and the other ben Stada. Neither of these is ben Jeseph. And where in the bible was Jesus stoned before being hanged?

Records of the Temple of Jerusalem where destroyed and history has not been able to verify that Caiaphas existed.

So the bible mentions something historical. This does not mean that everything in it is historical.


Pretty flimsy evidence. Where is the evidence of the sky darkening, dead raising from their graves and all the other major miracles? Why did none of the contemporary historians of that time mention those things?

[lancaster]

I have yet to see your views and put them upon the chopping block so to speak. Anyone willing to do so?

Sure. I don't believe in God or that Jesus ever existed. There is no evidence for either of these.

John 14:13-14 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

Well here goes "God, I sincerely pray in Jesus' name that you make me and everyone else at the shoes become Christian right now". Well it didn't work.

I believe that it is more likely that the tooth fairy exists, than that Jesus and God exist.

[pokey]

muslum jesus pwns, from the summary at least

and xcept86 does not, from the summary at least

[xcept68]

Sure. I don't believe in God or that Jesus ever existed. There is no evidence for either of these.

John 14:13-14 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

Well here goes "God, I sincerely pray in Jesus' name that you make me and everyone else at the shoes become Christian right now". Well it didn't work.

I believe that it is more likely that the tooth fairy exists, than that Jesus and God exist.

That's your choice, you are under His grace. I will pray for you as well.

[lancaster]

Please do. Now how will you rationalize that the prayers of a "true christian" failed, even though it says in the bible that If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it..

[xcept68]

anything, and He will help you in His season. Go ask anyone for $1 mil. They know as well as God knows that you do not "Need" it. They know you would like to have it, but it would likely mess your life up more than help you. You have no rationale, stop acting like your views give you any morals, or sense of direction whatsoever.

Sorry if you get offended by that. Okay! Cool.

[lancaster]

What part of If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it don't you understand?

Or are you trying to let Jesus weasel out with the ol' "I will give it to you, just wait a bit".

If someone promises you something and then they don't deliver, then they're a liar. But it's okay for Jesus to lie because lying isn't a sin, is it.

[xcept68]

What part of If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it don't you understand?

Or are you trying to let Jesus weasel out with the ol' "I will give it to you, just wait a bit".

If someone promises you something and then they don't deliver, then they're a liar. But it's okay for Jesus to lie because lying isn't a sin, is it.

OKay Alice Cooper. I think if you ask for things that aren't consistent with His word, then you are asking for them from in impostor God that wants to give you just enough to keep you trapped. Hmmm.

[lancaster]

Anything: (noun) any convenient thing whatsoever. : any such thing, except those that are too hard

[xcept68]

Anything: (noun) any convenient thing whatsoever. : any such thing, except those that are too hard

try asking Him for a brain.

So... Do you have a point yet? Or just to be a teenager in a forum?

[lancaster]

Every time you lose an argument you insult someone. As you seem to be losing many arguments in this forum, could you at least try to make your insults a little more entertaining? Thanks.

[xcept68]

Every time you lose an argument you insult someone. As you seem to be losing many arguments in this forum, could you at least try to make your insults a little more entertaining? Thanks.

not really. Haven't lost an arguement yet. But maybe you could offer something a bit more challenging that I haven't heard anyone else bring up before?

[lancaster]

So insulting people is the evidence you use to back up your point of view?

[kronker]

So insulting people is the evidence you use to back up your point of view?

Yes, you fucking whiny atheist bitch. Doesn't your tongue get sore from performing those devil deeds on Dawkins dink? (Alliteration pwns all).


I like God. I dislike people that take the Christian bible literally. God will save my lancaster though. He must save him, for I, want to fuck him in his Atheist ass.

[pokey]

who is god to deny you of your ass fucking pleasures

[kronker]

who is god to deny you of your ass fucking pleasures

I know, exactly. Thankyou friend. God be with you.

[lancaster]

God will save my lancaster though. He must save him, for I, want to fuck him in his Atheist ass.

You'll have to join the queue. Satan has prime position, then all the demons and then all the lawyers. You'll end up with sloppy 537ths.