Hey guys, just curious and wanted to know what drived some of you guys to become a catholic/christian/buddhist/etc.

I'll start.
I was underprivaldged and by believing in "God" made me feel better. Therefore I became a christian.

Hey guys, just curious and wanted to know what drived some of you guys to become a catholic/christian/buddhist/etc.

I'll start.
I was underprivaldged and by believing in "God" made me feel better. Therefore I became a christian.

Back when I was religious it was because my family was protestant. Now I'm a 50/50 agnostic who bases his belief off evidence.

BTW you should changed christian to protestant it's a bad misconception to think catholics aren't christians.

Back when I was religious it was because my family was protestant. Now I'm a 50/50 agnostic who bases his belief off evidence.

BTW you should changed christian to protestant it's a bad misconception to think catholics aren't christians.

i as well am agnostic, i do not choose not to believe in "god", i wait for proof of him. i come from a catholic background, meaning my whole family is generally catholic, but i was lucky enuf to have good understanding parents, that respected who i am unconditionally. i was actually given a choice to go to church as a child, which i did, and upon my own investigation i found that there where certain things that didnt add up, mainly god forgives all. but i say believe in what makes you a better person for yourself and you have found what youo needed.

i as well am agnostic, i do not choose not to believe in "god", i wait for proof of him. i come from a catholic background, meaning my whole family is generally catholic, but i was lucky enuf to have good understanding parents, that respected who i am unconditionally. i was actually given a choice to go to church as a child, which i did, and upon my own investigation i found that there where certain things that didnt add up, mainly god forgives all. but i say believe in what makes you a better person for yourself and you have found what youo needed.

I like that statement.

And God's forgiveness or rather lack of is a big reason why I'm not a Christian anymore.

I like that statement.

And God's forgiveness or rather lack of is a big reason why I'm not a Christian anymore.

yea its a bit hypocritical to have all these rules if your just gonna let everyone break them

i was reading your statment in a thread about philosiphy, dude asked you if you believe in punishment or something, this kinda falls in line with that. why reward if they dont deserve it.

yea its a bit hypocritical to have all these rules if your just gonna let everyone break them

Well that was my original complaint. An example I used to use was a person could kill everyone in a town go to prison repent and be saved, yet someoen else could be the most caring helpful selfless person ever and the fact that they didn't believe in God would land them in Hell.

I no longer view it in these terms as I view free will as being impossible, this makes me feel like God should forgive everyone as it is not their fault. His lack of compassion brings animosity between him and I.

Well that was my original complaint. An example I used to use was a person could kill everyone in a town go to prison repent and be saved, yet someoen else could be the most caring helpful selfless person ever and the fact that they didn't believe in God would land them in Hell.

I no longer view it in these terms as I view free will as being impossible, this makes me feel like God should forgive everyone as it is not their fault. His lack of compassion brings animosity between him and I.

lol i was watching something on crazy serial killers, and this one dude who found god on death row said, "is it a greater sin to kill someone, than it is to steal a loaf of bread" you could totally tell the dude was nuts, but he had a valid point

i was reading your statment in a thread about philosiphy, dude asked you if you believe in punishment or something, this kinda falls in line with that. why reward if they dont deserve it.

Well I don't believe anyone is deserving of anything as ones own action are determined by causes that one has nothing to do with. I do however believe everyone should be happy as happiness is very real and is the only good we can truely be sure of.

lol i was watching something on crazy serial killers, and this one dude who found god on death row said, "is it a greater sin to kill someone, than it is to steal a loaf of bread" you could totally tell the dude was nuts, but he had a valid point

Yeah he did.

I became religious coz I was in search of meaning. I was an athiest a while back. I wont say that I'm deep into religious study but I do find it intriguing and would love to study.

P.S. How old are you guys. Do mention at what age did you become religious and what spurred that change.

I do have questions but I think they would be answered by being a believer only.

Well I don't believe anyone is deserving of anything as ones own action are determined by causes that one has nothing to do with. I do however believe everyone should be happy as happiness is very real and is the only good we can truely be sure of.

damn. good shit.

I became religious coz I was in search of meaning. I was an athiest a while back. I wont say that I'm deep into religious study but I do find it intriguing and would love to study.

P.S. How old are you guys. Do mention at what age did you become religious and what spurred that change.

I do have questions but I think they would be answered by being a believer only.

i was born into a catholic family, and at about the age of 8-9 i "broke away"
like i said lucky to have the parents i have. i am 19

I became religious coz I was in search of meaning. I was an athiest a while back. I wont say that I'm deep into religious study but I do find it intriguing and would love to study.

P.S. How old are you guys. Do mention at what age did you become religious and what spurred that change.

I do have questions but I think they would be answered by being a believer only.

I was religious until I turned 15 that's when I started to doubt God. At 16 I came up with the idea of determinism, of course I didn't call it that it was just the realization that free will couldn't exist. I started reading books on evolution and would make arguements against Christianity, but I was never really an Atheist. Now at 18 I am an Agnostic.

damn. good shit.

Thanks

when i was around 20 I had an older mate who was just like me[smoking,drugs etc..]and after knowing him 4 a while I later found out he was a 'christian'.
When I asked how a christian could live the life he did he said that God puts us in strange places so we can reach all types of people,the main thing is too have a good heart and God will help you over the obstacles in life.
Anyway being young and maleable i took up a bible and got into christianity for a year or so.Initially is was good,it helped me[or at least i believed it helped me]get off drugs and straighten out.
After a while when i saw all the hyprocracy and contradictions,it just became[at least for me] too much to overlook and i gave up on it.
I also noticed that christians were no different[despite claiming that God oversees and blesses their lives]from non believers.Divorce,ignorance and crime still existed in the church.
The 'spiritual high and glow' that I initially had began to fade and dat was a dat.

This is good stuff. Keep em coming guys, i wanna hear more.

Well that was my original complaint. An example I used to use was a person could kill everyone in a town go to prison repent and be saved, yet someoen else could be the most caring helpful selfless person ever and the fact that they didn't believe in God would land them in Hell.

I no longer view it in these terms as I view free will as being impossible, this makes me feel like God should forgive everyone as it is not their fault. His lack of compassion brings animosity between him and I.

Hey blev, something I've been looking at lately is the belief in universal reconciliation. It was a belief started by men in the very early Christian church including Justin Martyr and Origen. Even though this view seems to be almost despised and frowned upon today, these men remain canonized saints in the Cathoic church, and I find the thought of it as very possible and I am thinking about believing in it. Belief in a doctrine like this seems to fit in quite well with your belief that free will doesn't exist, so people should not be punished for what they do wrong.

Hey blev, something I've been looking at lately is the belief in universal reconciliation. It was a belief started by men in the very early Christian church including Justin Martyr and Origen. Even though this view seems to be almost despised and frowned upon today, these men remain canonized saints in the Cathoic church, and I find the thought of it as very possible and I am thinking about believing in it. Belief in a doctrine like this seems to fit in quite well with your belief that free will doesn't exist, so people should not be punished for what they do wrong.

If you recall about a year ago José Luis de Jesús Miranda preached the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Luis_de_Jes%C3%BAs_Miranda

To be honest when I think of universal reconciliation it completely destroys any anger I feel towards a God, because to have all forgiven is to truely be all loving. I have no idea if this view is correct though and going by how I was raised it isn't.

I will venture to say that pretty much everyone that's agnostic has the same backdrop on when and why they became such.

Same will be said for atheists as well. They all have the same "tear-jerker" of a life story of how they were forced to go to church from a young age, then when they grew up they saw the hypocrisy or the contradictions of the Bible and religion and religious people.

I would like to offer some insight for you.

First there are 2 truths that are both true at the same time. 1. God is sovereign 2. man is responsible.

This means that you are required to find out the truth on your own, God will offer to guide you in the way to go if you ASK Him to. But just as your parents love you and don't want to stand in the way of your choices, nor will God. God won't prevent you from going in the direction you want to go, even if it hurts Him to see you do such. However He does always offer you a way back to Him, in every choice or decision that you make in your life, God is there with His hand out for you to grab ahold of. All this means is you can look back on your life and see the places that you have made the wrong choices and could have used God's help. God works all things towards good. You can stray off the path He wants you to go, but He will always put something in your life to give you the chance to get back on the right path. If you want to be a gay cabaret dancer and take balls across your nose, your parents will still love you, they may hate the way you live your life, but they will probably try to offer their help for you, and when you finally come back to your senses they will be there to still love you as their son. Just as God does. No offense to any gay cabaret dancers...

I will venture to say that pretty much everyone that's agnostic has the same backdrop on when and why they became such.

Same will be said for atheists as well. They all have the same "tear-jerker" of a life story of how they were forced to go to church from a young age, then when they grew up they saw the hypocrisy or the contradictions of the Bible and religion and religious people.

I would like to offer some insight for you.

First there are 2 truths that are both true at the same time. 1. God is sovereign 2. man is responsible.

This means that you are required to find out the truth on your own, God will offer to guide you in the way to go if you ASK Him to. But just as your parents love you and don't want to stand in the way of your choices, nor will God. God won't prevent you from going in the direction you want to go, even if it hurts Him to see you do such. However He does always offer you a way back to Him, in every choice or decision that you make in your life, God is there with His hand out for you to grab ahold of. All this means is you can look back on your life and see the places that you have made the wrong choices and could have used God's help. God works all things towards good. You can stray off the path He wants you to go, but He will always put something in your life to give you the chance to get back on the right path. If you want to be a gay cabaret dancer and take balls across your nose, your parents will still love you, they may hate the way you live your life, but they will probably try to offer their help for you, and when you finally come back to your senses they will be there to still love you as their son. Just as God does. No offense to any gay cabaret dancers...

1. Free will doesn't exist so your point is mute

2. When's the last time someones parents burned their kid alive because he took their name in vain? And do you consider these hypothetical parents good?

My religion is truth. The more I know about what's really going on and how things are manipulated and how things are being royal fucked over in the world on purpose the closer I feel to god or what ever you want to call the creator my reality.

Also truth has come from many speakers in history and is always manipulated from Christ to Krishna I find tibbits of truth everywhere.

1. Free will doesn't exist so your point is mute

2. When's the last time someones parents burned their kid alive because he took their name in vain? And do you consider these hypothetical parents good?

I think he is confused with Moloch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloch

Which god or whoever denounced in the bible....

And people to this day still worship the owl....


http://www.nouvelordremondial.cc/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/molech-moloch-bohemian.jpg

Like the Bohemian Club where all the worlds most powerful hobsnob!

most of you reading this were molested by yer family members and forced into religion and most of you i believe are non-athletic, virgins..... i am better then you ha-ha.

HAHAHA my parents were crazy fucking hippies and later in life crazy meth addicts. I tripped with both of them and did meth with both of them!

What a crazy fucking life. I got the Anarchist Cook Book from my dad as a gift at like 12.

i'm christian. and just through all the things i've been through i've been drawn to GOD. i've been through a lot.

i'm christian. and just through all the things i've been through i've been drawn to GOD. i've been through a lot.

Just curious, but why did you choose the Christian god and not one of the others?

1. Free will doesn't exist so your point is mute Wha wha what? So you are saying you were born to not worship God and go to hell? Why would God allow you to be born? hmmm. Satan would know that there is no free will also, and wouldn't be wasting his time trying to constantly convert people if he already knew how many he'd end up with. Yeah there is a measure of free will, The reason is that God will only allow us to be tempted up to what we can bare, and even then He will give us a way out. Meaning the only ones that probably had absolute free will, would have been Adam and Eve.

2. When's the last time someones parents burned their kid alive because he took their name in vain? And do you consider these hypothetical parents good?

Tell me what you mean by this? Are you referring to the OT? They had the same chance that Abraham's son, Issac had. God provided a way out, they chose not to take it. God turns all things towards good. We can do something destructive and God can bring good out of it for His purpose.

i'm a pagan; i do not believe in organized religion or practicing what others preach.

i was baptized when i was a teen, for all the wrong reasons. i abandoned tht notion when i realized just how fucked up the christian coalition is - particularly here in the bible belt.

i believe in mankind. that's my hope for our future...and anything beyond the "living" ezistence.

Paganism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
"Pagan" and "Heathen" redirect here. For other usages, see Pagan (disambiguation) and Heathen (disambiguation)
Mayan priests dancing around fire at a ceremony
Mayan priests dancing around fire at a ceremony

Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "country dweller, rustic") is a term which, from a Western perspective, has modern connotations of spiritual practices or beliefs of any folk religion, and of historical and contemporary polytheistic religions in particular.

The term can be defined broadly, to encompass the faith traditions outside the Abrahamic monotheistic group of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The group so defined includes many of the Eastern religions, Native American religions and mythologies and as well as non-Abrahamic ethnic religions in general. More narrow definitions will not include any of the world religions and restrict the term to local or rural currents not organized as civil religions. Characteristic of pagan traditions is the absence of proselytism and the presence of a living mythology which explains religious practice.[1]

The term "pagan" is a Christian adaptation of the "gentile" of Judaism, and as such has an inherent Christian or Abrahamic bias, and pejorative connotations among Westerners,[2] comparable to heathen, and infidel, mushrik and kafir (كافر) in Islam. For this reason, ethnologists avoid the term "paganism," with its uncertain and varied meanings, in referring to traditional or historic faiths, preferring more precise categories such as polytheism, shamanism, pantheism, or animism, however others criticise the use of these terms, claiming that these are only aspects that different faiths may share and do not denote the religions themselves.

Since the later 20th century, "Pagan" or "Paganism" has become widely used as a self-designation by adherents of Neopaganism.[3]

Just curious, but why did you choose the Christian god and not one of the others?

family.

Paganism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
"Pagan" and "Heathen" redirect here. For other usages, see Pagan (disambiguation) and Heathen (disambiguation)
Mayan priests dancing around fire at a ceremony
Mayan priests dancing around fire at a ceremony

Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "country dweller, rustic") is a term which, from a Western perspective, has modern connotations of spiritual practices or beliefs of any folk religion, and of historical and contemporary polytheistic religions in particular.

The term can be defined broadly, to encompass the faith traditions outside the Abrahamic monotheistic group of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The group so defined includes many of the Eastern religions, Native American religions and mythologies and as well as non-Abrahamic ethnic religions in general. More narrow definitions will not include any of the world religions and restrict the term to local or rural currents not organized as civil religions. Characteristic of pagan traditions is the absence of proselytism and the presence of a living mythology which explains religious practice.[1]

The term "pagan" is a Christian adaptation of the "gentile" of Judaism, and as such has an inherent Christian or Abrahamic bias, and pejorative connotations among Westerners,[2] comparable to heathen, and infidel, mushrik and kafir (كافر) in Islam. For this reason, ethnologists avoid the term "paganism," with its uncertain and varied meanings, in referring to traditional or historic faiths, preferring more precise categories such as polytheism, shamanism, pantheism, or animism, however others criticise the use of these terms, claiming that these are only aspects that different faiths may share and do not denote the religions themselves.

Since the later 20th century, "Pagan" or "Paganism" has become widely used as a self-designation by adherents of Neopaganism.[3]


I don't think he knew all that about his belief system. However he did try to push his belief upon everyone in here, by telling us what he believes.

Paganism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
"Pagan" and "Heathen" redirect here. For other usages, see Pagan (disambiguation) and Heathen (disambiguation)
Mayan priests dancing around fire at a ceremony
Mayan priests dancing around fire at a ceremony

Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "country dweller, rustic") is a term which, from a Western perspective, has modern connotations of spiritual practices or beliefs of any folk religion, and of historical and contemporary polytheistic religions in particular.

The term can be defined broadly, to encompass the faith traditions outside the Abrahamic monotheistic group of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The group so defined includes many of the Eastern religions, Native American religions and mythologies and as well as non-Abrahamic ethnic religions in general. More narrow definitions will not include any of the world religions and restrict the term to local or rural currents not organized as civil religions. Characteristic of pagan traditions is the absence of proselytism and the presence of a living mythology which explains religious practice.[1]

The term "pagan" is a Christian adaptation of the "gentile" of Judaism, and as such has an inherent Christian or Abrahamic bias, and pejorative connotations among Westerners,[2] comparable to heathen, and infidel, mushrik and kafir (كافر) in Islam. For this reason, ethnologists avoid the term "paganism," with its uncertain and varied meanings, in referring to traditional or historic faiths, preferring more precise categories such as polytheism, shamanism, pantheism, or animism, however others criticise the use of these terms, claiming that these are only aspects that different faiths may share and do not denote the religions themselves.

Since the later 20th century, "Pagan" or "Paganism" has become widely used as a self-designation by adherents of Neopaganism.[3]

in the bible belt, a pagan is not described by wikipedia. i know very well what the current adaptation of paganism is.

perhaps i should've used the typical word for pagan . heathen and yes, it is considered "pagan".

the term atheist is a little too specific for not having a belief system. wicka is an "evolving" religion here also.

I don't think he knew all that about his belief system. However he did try to push his belief upon everyone in here, by telling us what he believes.

"he" is a she.

i am not "pushing" anything, and certainly not any belief system as you suggest. Are you entirely sure what makes a belief system? i believe in many things, jis don't BELIEVE they are "divine".

"he" is a she.

i am not "pushing" anything, and certainly not any belief system as you suggest. Are you entirely sure what makes a belief system? i believe in many things, jis don't BELIEVE they are "divine".

Views then. Apologies for assuming because you have a naked woman on your avatar you were male.

Are you old enough to choose where you live? In the Bible belt as you would put it. I think TX would be considered the Buckle of the Bible belt.

Views then. Apologies for assuming because you have a naked woman on your avatar you were male.

Are you old enough to choose where you live? In the Bible belt as you would put it. I think TX would be considered the Buckle of the Bible belt.

ya call THAT nekid?!? niggah, plz

i hope you are not paid to think...

in the bible belt, a pagan is not described by wikipedia. i know very well what the current adaptation of paganism is.

perhaps i should've used the typical word for pagan . heathen and yes, it is considered "pagan".

the term atheist is a little too specific for not having a belief system. wicka is an "evolving" religion here also.



You know wicca and the new age movement grew out of freemasonry and Luciferianism right? If you want proof just ask but most anyone on here can vouch that I know my hidden history...

An atheist believes there is no god. Maybe you are more like agnostic? You believe there is a god but don't put a specific label or system of values attached to your belief?

For those that choose the Christian religion due to family...

Family is a big influence alright. But just as a thought exercise, what if the true god is Allah? When you die, you meet him and he'll be pretty pissed at you. You'll spend the rest of eternity burning in hell. This is your immortal soul we're talking about.

Say you choose Allah instead of the Christian god. You manage to convince your family to choose Allah as well. Now when you all die, you'll be together in heaven.

What a dilemma. How do you resolve this?

Wha wha what? So you are saying you were born to not worship God and go to hell? Why would God allow you to be born? hmmm. Satan would know that there is no free will also, and wouldn't be wasting his time trying to constantly convert people if he already knew how many he'd end up with. Yeah there is a measure of free will, The reason is that God will only allow us to be tempted up to what we can bare, and even then He will give us a way out. Meaning the only ones that probably had absolute free will, would have been Adam and Eve.

Alot of things God does don't make sense like why create humanity? So we can worship him? That's vain, but God isn't vain...

Btw God wanted Adam and Eve to eat the fruit. He tells Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree, but he must've known they wouldn't listen. So he must've wanted the outcome that occured, otherwise he would've done something differently. You can't even say he tried to warn them, because when you try you either succed or fail. An all knowing all powerful God cannot fail


Tell me what you mean by this? Are you referring to the OT? They had the same chance that Abraham's son, Issac had. God provided a way out, they chose not to take it. God turns all things towards good. We can do something destructive and God can bring good out of it for His purpose.

I'm referring to God sentencing people to an eternity in Hell. Would you condone a child being burned to death by its parents for any reason?

Btw God wanted Adam and Eve to eat the fruit. He tells Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree, but he must've known they wouldn't listen.

That's my favourite part of the bible. God creates a tree whose fruit give you knowledge and places it in easy reach of Adam and Eve. God nows says don't eat the fruit. But Adam and Eve don't know it's wrong to disobey God because they don't have the knowledge of good and evil.

So they eat the fruit because they don't know better. Then God jumps out and says, Ha! Gotcha! Now you're going to suffer forever!

What a cocksucker.

For those that choose the Christian religion due to family...

Family is a big influence alright. But just as a thought exercise, what if the true god is Allah? When you die, you meet him and he'll be pretty pissed at you. You'll spend the rest of eternity burning in hell. This is your immortal soul we're talking about.

Say you choose Allah instead of the Christian god. You manage to convince your family to choose Allah as well. Now when you all die, you'll be together in heaven.

What a dilemma. How do you resolve this?

First, you are aware that Allah and the Christian God are the same thing aren't you? In Islam I think you only serve a certain amount of time based on what you've done wrong not an eternity, I could be wrong though.

Is this the arguement of "What if your religion is wrong?" because that goes with anything what if Atheism or Agnosticism is wrong and Christianity is correct. One might say it's better to take a shot in the dark than to not try at all.

That's my favourite part of the bible. God creates a tree whose fruit give you knowledge and places it in easy reach of Adam and Eve. God nows says don't eat the fruit. But Adam and Eve don't know it's wrong to disobey God because they don't have the knowledge of good and evil.

So they eat the fruit because they don't know better. Then God jumps out and says, Ha! Gotcha! Now you're going to suffer forever!

What a cocksucker.

I think I used almost that exact phrase when describing it once.

Alot of things God does don't make sense like why create humanity? So we can worship him? That's vain, but God isn't vain...

Btw God wanted Adam and Eve to eat the fruit. He tells Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree, but he must've known they wouldn't listen. So he must've wanted the outcome that occured, otherwise he would've done something differently. You can't even say he tried to warn them, because when you try you either succed or fail. An all knowing all powerful God cannot fail

Actually, God knew Adam and Eve would eat the fruit, just as He knows when Christ will return and that he had to die upon the cross. Adam and Eve had free will. They had to be tempted by satan in order to disobey God. Adam and Eve didn't sin for probably 130 years. Satan fell because of how Adam and Eve were looked upon by the Angels and how they worshipped God. Satan wanted to be worshipped by them as God was. He was the chief musician in heaven other angels looked to him when it was time to praise God for he led them in this. So satan was God's greatest creation, wisest and most beautiful. I'm sure he loves that we think of him as a pointy tailed imp that sits on your shoulder. He's not this at all.

I'm referring to God sentencing people to an eternity in Hell. Would you condone a child being burned to death by its parents for any reason?
If you spend your entire life trying to avoid God, then it would be worse than spending eternity in Hell, to spend eternity in God's presence. God won't keep you from what you want, because He loves you. You don't want to visit your father in schenectady, then he won't make you get on a plane and fly out there. You would be miserable spending time with him if you don't want to see him. God loves us and won't prevent us from doing what we want to, only when we want to come back to Him, He throws a celebration in Heaven and welcomes us with open arms! Because He loves us. We have the choice to follow Christ in our lives. God wants everyone to be saved, but knows that isn't what will happen. God wants those that willingly love Him, because love isn't about making someone love you, it's about allowing them to love you in return because you first loved them.

Now to the next post...

First, you are aware that Allah and the Christian God are the same thing aren't you? In Islam I think you only serve a certain amount of time based on what you've done wrong not an eternity, I could be wrong though.

Is this the arguement of "What if your religion is wrong?" because that goes with anything what if Atheism or Agnosticism is wrong and Christianity is correct. One might say it's better to take a shot in the dark than to not try at all.

No I'm afraid that they are not the same God. The only way to the Father is through the Son (Jesus). Not Muhammad, Allah, Buddha, Krishna, Joseph Smith or any other earthly prophet.

Islam states that Christ didn't die on the cross, and Christianity does.
Hinduism states that there have been many incarnates of God, Christianity states only once.
Judiasm, states that Jesus isn't the Messaiah, Christianity does.

These cannot all be right, they all contradict one another, Just as 2+2 can only equal 4. So it can never be 5 or 6 or 128. You must find the correct answer, because all others are wrong.

You know wicca and the new age movement grew out of freemasonry and Luciferianism right? If you want proof just ask but most anyone on here can vouch that I know my hidden history...

An atheist believes there is no god. Maybe you are more like agnostic? You believe there is a god but don't put a specific label or system of values attached to your belief?

i know much about wicca, one of my friends follows. i also know you're not usually blowing smoke up anybody's ass around here. i've seen many of your threads and posts. you can deliver some very thought-provoking insight sometimes.

after reading the posts, i've gone back to some sites and one in particular actually analyzes one's belief(s), or lack thereof. so to be more specific as to my religious/spiritual path, if you will. the result for me...unitarian universalism.

"Unitarian Universalism (UUism) is a theologically liberal religious movement characterized by its support of a "free and responsible search for truth and meaning." Unitarian Universalists do not share a creed; rather they are unified by their shared search for spiritual growth. Unitarian Universalists draw on many different sources and have a wide range of beliefs and practices."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

no, i don't believe in a "god", a creator...perhaps, but nothing divine - as i've said b4 - and certainly not what the bible teaches. it makes for a good history book...nothing more or less, IMO. too many books were omitted from the bible's completed text, all very selective - and the methods used to make multiple printings to "spread the word" are not reliable.

as far as i'm concerned, neither god nor satan exist. good and evil exists in all of us - it is up to each of us to reject or practice those characteristics.

Cool I'm glad I could at least one person to grasp more of what they actually believe to be true.

Actually, God knew Adam and Eve would eat the fruit, just as He knows when Christ will return and that he had to die upon the cross. Adam and Eve had free will. They had to be tempted by satan in order to disobey God. Adam and Eve didn't sin for probably 130 years. Satan fell because of how Adam and Eve were looked upon by the Angels and how they worshipped God. Satan wanted to be worshipped by them as God was. He was the chief musician in heaven other angels looked to him when it was time to praise God for he led them in this. So satan was God's greatest creation, wisest and most beautiful. I'm sure he loves that we think of him as a pointy tailed imp that sits on your shoulder. He's not this at all.

First, I said in my post God knew Adam and Eve would eat from the tree. In fact it is the entire reason behind my thesis that God wanted them to eat from the tree. My thesis still holds true as you have presented no evidence against it.

If you spend your entire life trying to avoid God, then it would be worse than spending eternity in Hell, to spend eternity in God's presence. God won't keep you from what you want, because He loves you. You don't want to visit your father in schenectady, then he won't make you get on a plane and fly out there. You would be miserable spending time with him if you don't want to see him. God loves us and won't prevent us from doing what we want to, only when we want to come back to Him, He throws a celebration in Heaven and welcomes us with open arms! Because He loves us. We have the choice to follow Christ in our lives. God wants everyone to be saved, but knows that isn't what will happen. God wants those that willingly love Him, because love isn't about making someone love you, it's about allowing them to love you in return because you first loved them.

So God loves me so much that if I don't want to be with him I get to burn in Hell? Why couldn't he just put me out of existence?

No I'm afraid that they are not the same God. The only way to the Father is through the Son (Jesus). Not Muhammad, Allah, Buddha, Krishna, Joseph Smith or any other earthly prophet.

Islam states that Christ didn't die on the cross, and Christianity does.
Hinduism states that there have been many incarnates of God, Christianity states only once.
Judiasm, states that Jesus isn't the Messaiah, Christianity does.

These cannot all be right, they all contradict one another, Just as 2+2 can only equal 4. So it can never be 5 or 6 or 128. You must find the correct answer, because all others are wrong.

Judiasm, Christianity, and Islam all have the same God. They are not the same religions, but they all worship the same god. They are the Abrahamic Religions. According to your thoughts Mormons and Catholics wouldn't have the same God because they worship God differently and believe different things than Protestants.

i know much about wicca, one of my friends follows. i also know you're not usually blowing smoke up anybody's ass around here. i've seen many of your threads and posts. you can deliver some very thought-provoking insight sometimes.

after reading the posts, i've gone back to some sites and one in particular actually analyzes one's belief(s), or lack thereof. so to be more specific as to my religious/spiritual path, if you will. the result for me...unitarian universalism.

"Unitarian Universalism (UUism) is a theologically liberal religious movement characterized by its support of a "free and responsible search for truth and meaning." Unitarian Universalists do not share a creed; rather they are unified by their shared search for spiritual growth. Unitarian Universalists draw on many different sources and have a wide range of beliefs and practices."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

no, i don't believe in a "god", a creator...perhaps, but nothing divine - as i've said b4 - and certainly not what the bible teaches. it makes for a good history book...nothing more or less, IMO. too many books were omitted from the bible's completed text, all very selective - and the methods used to make multiple printings to "spread the word" are not reliable.

as far as i'm concerned, neither god nor satan exist. good and evil exists in all of us - it is up to each of us to reject or practice those characteristics.



What is the source of the good and evil within us? What is the origin of it? Why does this exist in us? What do you determine is good? And how is that determined to be good? If ones person search for the truth leads them to a different truth than you, then is there an ultimate truth in order to measure everything against? I mean do you just use the legal system of laws as your measure of truth? No raping, murdering, stealing etc... because this is all derived from the Bible. So does that make the Bible the ultimate truth? Well it does for me. Probably because as you said, it's a very accurate history book, with everything else accurate, for if it wasn't then it would have been thrown out long ago. And the books of the Bible that you state aren't included are because they are shown not to be divinely inspired.

For instance, in the OT, God spoke to people and conveyed what needed to be written. This means that God would make sure it was written correctly. Then you have the 400 years where God didn't speak to man, except through prophets. These prophets were revealed things by God through Christ. and only about Christ. Then you have the NT which is the account of God through Christ again, only He walked among those and also everything was written down because they were in His presence. Then you have revelation, when John was revealed the vision through his dream given to him by angels from God. All the other works are stories that were added in to make a continuity of when Christ was not written about up to the age of 12 to 30. Things like Jesus' father breaking a chair and Jesus miraculously fixing it. Silly things of stories in order to fill up the missing parts, called the Apocrypha. Not divinely inspired works at all. Not important to our salvation at all.

The Bible is more like a survival guide. All the necessary information is contained and none of the fluff, just as you don't want a backpack full of pots and pans but no matches when you are lost in the wilderness. This is the same with the Word of God. We only need to know what we need for our salvation, nothing more.

First, I said in my post God knew Adam and Eve would eat from the tree. In fact it is the entire reason behind my thesis that God wanted them to eat from the tree. My thesis still holds true as you have presented no evidence against it.

God did now want them to eat from the tree. They had a choice, they could have not eaten from either tree, they could have eaten from the tree of life and lived forever, or they could have eaten from the tree of knowledge. They were directed to the tree of knowledge by Satan. Then they were cast out of the garden so that they wouldn't eat from the tree of life so they wouldn't live forever in their sins. No the tree wasn't an apple or anything silly like that. It was a tree that was destroyed when this world was destroyed in the flood. The cherub kept all away from there with a flaming sword until the flood was ushered in. Adam and Eve had to be taken from the Garden because God didn't want them to eat from the tree of life. Adam and eve had the choice to disobey God, but God knowing that they would, but they still allowed the opportunity to obey God. God's ways are above our ways. We cannot see all of God's plan, but we can get an idea of what He wants for us from His word. Perhaps in having a free choice to love God gives all those that want to be with God the opportunity to be with God and no man can take that choice away from us. No matter what they do. That is why you have inalienable rights given by God and not man. Without God you wouldn't have these rights. To understand this more, search it out.

So God loves me so much that if I don't want to be with him I get to burn in Hell? Why couldn't he just put me out of existence?

Because within you is the Holy Spirit. Just as we are made in His likeness. God the father, God the son and God the Holy Ghost. We are soul, flesh and spirit. three in one. You have every chance to come to him, even to your dying breath. But why waste your life to only know Him on your deathbed? How incredibly selfish and shallow is that?

Judiasm, Christianity, and Islam all have the same God. They are not the same religions, but they all worship the same god. They are the Abrahamic Religions. According to your thoughts Mormons and Catholics wouldn't have the same God because they worship God differently and believe different things than Protestants.

The only way to the Father is through the Son, Jesus Christ. If you do not view Jesus as divine and born of a virgin, crucified and rose on the 3rd day and will ultimately return, then you could be in danger of worshipping another God. That's unfortunate. I cannot judge a man's place in his walk with Jesus, so this is up to Jesus to judge as He will judge all of us. But I can understand what His word says to us. Abraham didn't start the religion. God spoke to His people before Abraham. Abraham is just the point where God made a chosen people through Isaac and Jacob (Isreal). God chose one people to save all though them. Gentiles, and Pagans alike all can come to know Jesus and be saved and have the same eternal life of the ones that God first chose.

God did now want them to eat from the tree. They had a choice, they could have not eaten from either tree, they could have eaten from the tree of life and lived forever, or they could have eaten from the tree of knowledge. They were directed to the tree of knowledge by Satan. Then they were cast out of the garden so that they wouldn't eat from the tree of life so they wouldn't live forever in their sins. No the tree wasn't an apple or anything silly like that. It was a tree that was destroyed when this world was destroyed in the flood. The cherub kept all away from there with a flaming sword until the flood was ushered in. Adam and Eve had to be taken from the Garden because God didn't want them to eat from the tree of life. Adam and eve had the choice to disobey God, but God knowing that they would, but they still allowed the opportunity to obey God. God's ways are above our ways. We cannot see all of God's plan, but we can get an idea of what He wants for us from His word. Perhaps in having a free choice to love God gives all those that want to be with God the opportunity to be with God and no man can take that choice away from us. No matter what they do. That is why you have inalienable rights given by God and not man. Without God you wouldn't have these rights. To understand this more, search it out.

If he know the exact consequences his actions will cause how can you say he didn't want that to happen? You can't, because if he didn't want that to happen he would've done something different.

Because within you is the Holy Spirit. Just as we are made in His likeness. God the father, God the son and God the Holy Ghost. We are soul, flesh and spirit. three in one. You have every chance to come to him, even to your dying breath. But why waste your life to only know Him on your deathbed? How incredibly selfish and shallow is that?

You still never answered my question. Wouldn't it be a more loving action to put me out of existence than to have me suffering for an eternity?

Wouldn't it be a more loving action to put me out of existence than to have me suffering for an eternity?

good question

The only way to the Father is through the Son, Jesus Christ. If you do not view Jesus as divine and born of a virgin, crucified and rose on the 3rd day and will ultimately return, then you could be in danger of worshipping another God. That's unfortunate. I cannot judge a man's place in his walk with Jesus, so this is up to Jesus to judge as He will judge all of us. But I can understand what His word says to us. Abraham didn't start the religion. God spoke to His people before Abraham. Abraham is just the point where God made a chosen people through Isaac and Jacob (Isreal). God chose one people to save all though them. Gentiles, and Pagans alike all can come to know Jesus and be saved and have the same eternal life of the ones that God first chose.

I think a more accurate statement would be "You could be in danger of worshiping God wrong" As they are all the same God yet people believe that he should be worshipped differently ie. Jesus, Muhammad, etc.

What is the source of the good and evil within us? What is the origin of it? Why does this exist in us? What do you determine is good? And how is that determined to be good? If ones person search for the truth leads them to a different truth than you, then is there an ultimate truth in order to measure everything against? I mean do you just use the legal system of laws as your measure of truth? No raping, murdering, stealing etc... because this is all derived from the Bible. So does that make the Bible the ultimate truth? Well it does for me. Probably because as you said, it's a very accurate history book, with everything else accurate, for if it wasn't then it would have been thrown out long ago. And the books of the Bible that you state aren't included are because they are shown not to be divinely inspired.

For instance, in the OT, God spoke to people and conveyed what needed to be written. This means that God would make sure it was written correctly. Then you have the 400 years where God didn't speak to man, except through prophets. These prophets were revealed things by God through Christ. and only about Christ. Then you have the NT which is the account of God through Christ again, only He walked among those and also everything was written down because they were in His presence. Then you have revelation, when John was revealed the vision through his dream given to him by angels from God. All the other works are stories that were added in to make a continuity of when Christ was not written about up to the age of 12 to 30. Things like Jesus' father breaking a chair and Jesus miraculously fixing it. Silly things of stories in order to fill up the missing parts, called the Apocrypha. Not divinely inspired works at all. Not important to our salvation at all.

The Bible is more like a survival guide. All the necessary information is contained and none of the fluff, just as you don't want a backpack full of pots and pans but no matches when you are lost in the wilderness. This is the same with the Word of God. We only need to know what we need for our salvation, nothing more.

yer sho a long-winded fuck...

What is the source of the good and evil within us?
- heart and soul

What is the origin of it?
- redundant/see above

Why does this exist in us?
- we are humans

What do you determine is good?
- me...deeds that have positive outcomes

And how is that determined to be good?
- gut instinct (some claim to hear spirit guides, others say they talk to God or Jesus)

If ones person search for the truth leads them to a different truth than you, then is there an ultimate truth in order to measure everything against?
- no; ever heard of the term "to each his own"?

I mean do you just use the legal system of laws as your measure of truth?
- no such thing exists

No raping, murdering, stealing etc... because this is all derived from the Bible. So does that make the Bible the ultimate truth?
- it is not the ultimate truth

Well it does for me. Probably because as you said, it's a very accurate history book, with everything else accurate, for if it wasn't then it would have been thrown out long ago.
- thar ya go making assumptions again...and twisting my words to coincide with your own agenda, i never called the bible "accurate", only "good"...different meaning altogether. and no, it would not have been thrown out long ago

And the books of the Bible that you state aren't included are because they are shown not to be divinely inspired.
- oh, yeah...says who? i say they weren't included cause they were re-written, edited, and compiled by MEN, not MANKIND, but...M E N. why else ya think eve is the skank in the garden of eden? and mary, she birthed a bastard child...

yer sho a long-winded fuck...

What is the source of the good and evil within us?
- heart and soul

What is the origin of it?
- redundant/see above

Why does this exist in us?
- we are humans

What do you determine is good?
- me...deeds that have positive outcomes

And how is that determined to be good?
- gut instinct (some claim to hear spirit guides, others say they talk to God or Jesus)

If ones person search for the truth leads them to a different truth than you, then is there an ultimate truth in order to measure everything against?
- no; ever heard of the term "to each his own"?

I mean do you just use the legal system of laws as your measure of truth?
- no such thing exists

No raping, murdering, stealing etc... because this is all derived from the Bible. So does that make the Bible the ultimate truth?
- it is not the ultimate truth

Well it does for me. Probably because as you said, it's a very accurate history book, with everything else accurate, for if it wasn't then it would have been thrown out long ago.
- thar ya go making assumptions again...and twisting my words to coincide with your own agenda, i never called the bible "accurate", only "good"...different meaning altogether. and no, it would not have been thrown out long ago

And the books of the Bible that you state aren't included are because they are shown not to be divinely inspired.
- oh, yeah...says who? i say they weren't included cause they were re-written, edited, and compiled by MEN, not MANKIND, but...M E N. why else ya think eve is the skank in the garden of eden? and mary, she birthed a bastard child...


Not for nothing, but you pretty much contradict your entire UU view with your answers, which is really what I expected to happen.

Why would your view of good be more right than someone else's view of good? If someone says it's right to kill cows and eat them, and you happen to be a vegan and say it's wrong. How does that make you right and them wrong? There has to be something to measure all truths against or truth becomes subjective.

I think a more accurate statement would be "You could be in danger of worshiping God wrong" As they are all the same God yet people believe that he should be worshipped differently ie. Jesus, Muhammad, etc.

Satan wants you to worship God wrong, or in other words worship the wrong God. You believe God is not who He is, then you can be caught or led to believe you are okay, when you aren't.

Don't play with your eternal soul. It isn't a toy.

Satan wants you to worship God wrong, or in other words worship the wrong God. You believe God is not who He is, then you can be caught or led to believe you are okay, when you aren't.

Don't play with your eternal soul. It isn't a toy.

Ok, I was just proving my point that it's all the same God. I never said you could worship him any way you want.

good question

And again avoided by bibleboy

Not for nothing, but you pretty much contradict your entire UU view with your answers, which is really what I expected to happen.

Why would your view of good be more right than someone else's view of good? If someone says it's right to kill cows and eat them, and you happen to be a vegan and say it's wrong. How does that make you right and them wrong? There has to be something to measure all truths against or truth becomes subjective.

ya know, my first impression of you was not a good one, and i thought to myself..."what the hey, he's got an opinion too, maybe a little more anal retentive than I care for, but he's a person, so try to give him the benefit of the doubt"

I go back to my original assessment...you are only here to try to antagonize and incite folks here with yer holier than thou views and assessments "I knew you'd...blah, blah, blah" bullshit.

go look in yer bible - i'm sure you'll find ALL the answers you seek right there in all those pages. believe whateva ya want and practice that which tickles yer fancy.

the bible and all therein is as embraceable and believable by me as kermitthefrayer's old av; i could worship it jis as easily.

have a nice life...

ya know, my first impression of you was not a good one, and i thought to myself..."what the hey, he's got an opinion too, maybe a little more anal retentive than I care for, but he's a person, so try to give him the benefit of the doubt"

I go back to my original assessment...you are only here to try to antagonize and incite folks here with yer holier than thou views and assessments "I knew you'd...blah, blah, blah" bullshit.

go look in yer bible - i'm sure you'll find ALL the answers you seek right there in all those pages. believe whateva ya want and practice that which tickles yer fancy.

the bible and all therein is as embraceable and believable by me as kermitthefrayer's old av; i could worship it jis as easily.

have a nice life...


Look back a bit... notice I'm not the one that's avoiding any questions asked of me. I'm really trying my best to answer what is being asked of me. I certainly don't intend to offend you in any way. I don't want to present a holier than thou attitude to you at all. I'm just as fallen as you are. I have my faults and I sincerely apologize for offending you in any manner with my recent posts. I hope we can continue speaking about things. I mean I live in the b.b.bible belt too... here in Dallas, Tx. I'm originally from Cali. So maybe we can start over and talk about something different? I hope we can.

And again avoided by bibleboy

when you have something nice to say or offer, I will acknowledge you. Until then... I won't.

I will give you a chance to try again and we can go over whatever is on your mind. I really don't mind talking with you, but I'm not trying to talk about you.

when you have something nice to say or offer, I will acknowledge you. Until then... I won't.

I will give you a chance to try again and we can go over whatever is on your mind. I really don't mind talking with you, but I'm not trying to talk about you.

moron, i was quoting blevunly's post which you cunningly avoided. Let me quote it again for your dumb ass

Wouldn't it be a more loving action to put me out of existence than to have me suffering for an eternity?

Ok, I was just proving my point that it's all the same God. I never said you could worship him any way you want.

I see what you are saying. I know that God is separate from Jesus, both Co-equal and co-eternal. Only the purpose of Jesus is our judge and the way into Heaven, if we do not acknowledge Jesus as the eternal son of god, then we will be judge by the laws written upon our hearts. I cannot state enough that I do not know or understand how God will judge all, but I know that He will judge everyone more fairly than we can even begin to understand. If we do not have Jesus to take our place or go before us in the judgement, then it's pretty likely that we will not enter into God's kingdom. That's my view on this subject.

So praising Allah and muhammad as a higher prophet of Allah, and denouncing Jesus could be a problem at judgement when it is Christ that stands before you on the white throne of judgement.

moron, i was quoting blevunly's post which you cunningly avoided. Let me quote it again for your dumb ass

I answered it earlier. No need to stoop to name calling. I think it speaks of your ease of being self annoyed by what you are or aren't reading. You shouldn't let something like a blog get your panties in a bunch.

No it wouldn't be easier. Because everyone has the opportunity to come to God. Lets use Judas Iscariot as a good example.

The bible states that Satan entered Judas. Judas didn't have to listen or obey or even allow Satan to enter him. God knowing Judas would betray Jesus, also knew the Judas had a complete choice to do so. He didn't have to act upon this. However he did. We all have the choice. I have a choice at any moment to commit suicide. But I make the choice not to. Sorry to let you down :cray:

I see what you are saying. I know that God is separate from Jesus, both Co-equal and co-eternal. Only the purpose of Jesus is our judge and the way into Heaven, if we do not acknowledge Jesus as the eternal son of god, then we will be judge by the laws written upon our hearts. I cannot state enough that I do not know or understand how God will judge all, but I know that He will judge everyone more fairly than we can even begin to understand. If we do not have Jesus to take our place or go before us in the judgement, then it's pretty likely that we will not enter into God's kingdom. That's my view on this subject.

So praising Allah and muhammad as a higher prophet of Allah, and denouncing Jesus could be a problem at judgement when it is Christ that stands before you on the white throne of judgement.

Ok I'll say this one more time. I'm not saying which religion is correct, I'm not saying that if you are Islamic that God will say "Atleast you were praising me" and allow you into Heaven, and I'm not saying you can get to heaven without Jesus. What I am saying is that The Jewish/Christian/Islamic God are all the same God. They worship him differently and have different beliefs that could very well decide whether they go to Heaven or Hell, but they still are all worshiping the same being.

I answered it earlier. No need to stoop to name calling. I think it speaks of your ease of being self annoyed by what you are or aren't reading. You shouldn't let something like a blog get your panties in a bunch.

No it wouldn't be easier. Because everyone has the opportunity to come to God. Lets use Judas Iscariot as a good example.

The bible states that Satan entered Judas. Judas didn't have to listen or obey or even allow Satan to enter him. God knowing Judas would betray Jesus, also knew the Judas had a complete choice to do so. He didn't have to act upon this. However he did. We all have the choice. I have a choice at any moment to commit suicide. But I make the choice not to. Sorry to let you down :cray:

Please show me where you answered my question as I guess I missed it.

If God is all powerful and he loves us so much why did he create Satan and then allow him to tempt us? That's like a parent who goes and gets a kid who constantly gets in trouble and tells their own child go play with this guy.

I answered it earlier. No need to stoop to name calling. I think it speaks of your ease of being self annoyed by what you are or aren't reading. You shouldn't let something like a blog get your panties in a bunch.

No it wouldn't be easier. Because everyone has the opportunity to come to God. Lets use Judas Iscariot as a good example.

The bible states that Satan entered Judas. Judas didn't have to listen or obey or even allow Satan to enter him. God knowing Judas would betray Jesus, also knew the Judas had a complete choice to do so. He didn't have to act upon this. However he did. We all have the choice. I have a choice at any moment to commit suicide. But I make the choice not to. Sorry to let you down :cray:

Maybe it's the other way round. Maybe the devil wants us to believe the false god(jesus) and read the false book(bible)

Maybe it's the other way round. Maybe the devil wants us to believe the false god(jesus) and read the false book(bible)

Wouldn't that be crazy if it was true. I mean with how much death is associated with Christianity it would kinda go with the Devil.

Please show me where you answered my question as I guess I missed it.

If God is all powerful and he loves us so much why did he create Satan and then allow him to tempt us? That's like a parent who goes and gets a kid who constantly gets in trouble and tells their own child go play with this guy.

No, actually it isn't. I can see where you are coming from, but Satan is a created being with a purpose, he also had a choice. And in his choice he offered a choice to Adam and Eve by convincing them to disobey God. Adam and Eve were responsible for their actions as was Satan. He was cursed and will ultimately be dealt with for eternity. We live somewhere about 80 or so years, then we pass over into eternity. When this world is made anew then all will be without death, suffering, pain, sin. We will all dwell with God, those that choose Him. My view on this is God wants those that love Him because He first loved us. We choose God over Satan. We can choose satan if we want to, but God will make every effort without forcing you to come to Him. He wants you to come to Him of your own accord. He provides His word to us and his promise and the evidence as the Bible states of God is all around us. I know non-believers don't like to hear this, because they only see the evidence of evolution all around us... right?

Wouldn't that be crazy if it was true. I mean with how much death is associated with Christianity it would kinda go with the Devil.

That's exactly the case with Islam and Hinduism, and Buddhism, and Mormonism... and the many other world religions. No, satan would never devise a religion where God would have to lay down his life and suffer for a lower creation such as we are compared to God. Satan would devise a religion where we are gods in our own right, or can become gods. This feeds into what he is about. God is about love. And you do not force someone to love you just as God doesn't force you to love him in return.

Maybe it's the other way round. Maybe the devil wants us to believe the false god(jesus) and read the false book(bible)

this would explain

- the slaughter of thousands of women at the hand of christianity for practicing witchcraft
- the slaughter of millions to date at the hand of war; justified in the name of religion (usually god)
- the slaughter of ??? native americans by the christians who wanted to eradicate them from north america
- the practice of FGM in foreign countries
- the use of devices to "persuade" folks into christianity

http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/archive/torture/devices.htm

Actually, God knew Adam and Eve would eat the fruit, just as He knows when Christ will return and that he had to die upon the cross. Adam and Eve had free will. They had to be tempted by satan in order to disobey God. Adam and Eve didn't sin for probably 130 years. Satan fell because of how Adam and Eve were looked upon by the Angels and how they worshipped God. Satan wanted to be worshipped by them as God was. He was the chief musician in heaven other angels looked to him when it was time to praise God for he led them in this. So satan was God's greatest creation, wisest and most beautiful. I'm sure he loves that we think of him as a pointy tailed imp that sits on your shoulder. He's not this at all.


If you spend your entire life trying to avoid God, then it would be worse than spending eternity in Hell, to spend eternity in God's presence. God won't keep you from what you want, because He loves you. You don't want to visit your father in schenectady, then he won't make you get on a plane and fly out there. You would be miserable spending time with him if you don't want to see him. God loves us and won't prevent us from doing what we want to, only when we want to come back to Him, He throws a celebration in Heaven and welcomes us with open arms! Because He loves us. We have the choice to follow Christ in our lives. God wants everyone to be saved, but knows that isn't what will happen. God wants those that willingly love Him, because love isn't about making someone love you, it's about allowing them to love you in return because you first loved them.

Now to the next post...


This was what I answered for your post on page 3

this would explain

- the slaughter of thousands of women at the hand of christianity for practicing witchcraft
- the slaughter of millions to date at the hand of war; justified in the name of religion (usually god)
- the slaughter of ??? native americans by the christians who wanted to eradicate them from north america
- the practice of FGM in foreign countries
- the use of devices to "persuade" folks into christianity

http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/archive/torture/devices.htm



actually all that is quite well explained in the Bible what it was about. Men are fallen and evil. When God made the 7th day for a day of rest, men immediately twisted it up with all these restrictions, it was more work than on any working day to adhere to these rules, Jesus tore this down. A tailor couldn't take 2 needles home, that would be a violation of the sabbath, but he could take one home for an emergency, Jesus healed on the sabbath, he ate grain on the sabbath. He stated that if one of your donkeys falls into the well on the sabbath, you would certainly labor to get it out of there. People can twist the laws up, just look at the money changers inthe Bible. Jesus turned over their tables, because they were taking peoples sheeps and saying they weren't good enough sacrifice and selling them the persons sheep that was there just before them as a perfect sacrifice in merely charging people money for such an act. People can twist the words of God for profit. Not a good thing to do.

No, actually it isn't. I can see where you are coming from, but Satan is a created being with a purpose, he also had a choice. And in his choice he offered a choice to Adam and Eve by convincing them to disobey God. Adam and Eve were responsible for their actions as was Satan. He was cursed and will ultimately be dealt with for eternity. We live somewhere about 80 or so years, then we pass over into eternity. When this world is made anew then all will be without death, suffering, pain, sin. We will all dwell with God, those that choose Him. My view on this is God wants those that love Him because He first loved us. We choose God over Satan. We can choose satan if we want to, but God will make every effort without forcing you to come to Him. He wants you to come to Him of your own accord. He provides His word to us and his promise and the evidence as the Bible states of God is all around us. I know non-believers don't like to hear this, because they only see the evidence of evolution all around us... right?

You still haven't answered my question.
Wouldn't it be a more loving action to put me out of existence than to have me suffering for an eternity?

Why do you keep bringing free will up? You should know by now I don't believe in it and I can make a case why it doesn't. A case which is created out of logic not based off what I read in the bible, no offense but you seem to replace logic with scripture every chance you get. Sometimes logic and scripture coincide just not with free will.

God doesnt send anyone to hell, man sends himself to hell for not believing.

The whole idea in believing in God is not about going to heaven or hell its about the relationship with him.

We were created to Love and be Loved. Without creation true love cannot exist. because self-love is not true love.

The people who are caught up with "loving God" to go to heaven are doing it for an egotistical reason and imo prolly arent "true Christians"

As for free will / Predestination... I believe in Predestination

Saying its not fair to have a Hell or To "send people to hell" is not accurate... What is fair is to "send" all of mankind to hell because all have sinned.

God's Soverienity and Grace is what gives us the chance to be "saved"

That's exactly the case with Islam and Hinduism, and Buddhism, and Mormonism... and the many other world religions. No, satan would never devise a religion where God would have to lay down his life and suffer for a lower creation such as we are compared to God. Satan would devise a religion where we are gods in our own right, or can become gods. This feeds into what he is about. God is about love. And you do not force someone to love you just as God doesn't force you to love him in return.

Thats the trick. Think about it. Why would a god lay down his life for a lower creation??? God punished jesus for claiming to be teh god when in fact he was an ordinary person, conspiring with satan guy. Then satan sold you the pwnment of jesus as a kind of a great sacrifice. Then satan organised an entire religion out of it so that he could pwn people for ages to come!!!! it all makes sense now!!!

God doesnt send anyone to hell, man sends himself to hell for not believing.

The whole idea in believing in God is not about going to heaven or hell its about the relationship with him.

We were created to Love and be Loved. Without creation true love cannot exist. because self-love is not true love.

The people who are caught up with "loving God" to go to heaven are doing it for an egotistical reason and imo prolly arent "true Christians"

As for free will / Predestination... I believe in Predestination

Saying its not fair to have a Hell or To "send people to hell" is not accurate... What is fair is to "send" all of mankind to hell because all have sinned.

God's Soverienity and Grace is what gives us the chance to be "saved"

Tell me does God sin?

Sin - to miss the mark

so it depends what u mean, be more specific

Sin - to miss the mark

so it depends what u mean, be more specific

Awesome. This is the true definition of sin. To miss the mark. But then the question is - what exactly is the mark?

Sin - to miss the mark

so it depends what u mean, be more specific

You say that all mankind has sinned, so has God sinned?

--THe Mark--
To Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength

IMO God cannot "Sin"

So if God cannot sin then it's possible for people to not be able to sin, correct?

Yes, but in the stricktest one "sin" and u need Christ

So then if God didn't want us to sin then why would he give us the ability to?

Its about Love man, True love is Two ways

Forced Love is not True Love, however in predestination God decideds out of grace alone who to "save" and the free will/choice is mans in accepting or rejecting

But ur question is one that we may never "know"

God did create sin, but why??

I think to show the need for his Grace

Its about Love man, True love is Two ways

Forced Love is not True Love, however in predestination God decideds out of grace alone who to "save" and the free will/choice is mans in accepting or rejecting

How can free will occur when everything including thoughts can only occur by being caused or being random?

But ur question is one that we may never "know"

God did create sin, but why??

I think to show the need for his Grace

Seems kind of vain.

I see what your saying,

-"true" predestination-

his choice of me is a cause for me to love him back / be saved

His choice of me causes me to reject him - not to logical

--Free will--
His choice for me / WOW I WANT to love him back

His Choice for Me / I Reject it


I believe in both, but that is my belief either way it still shows God's love for us and his sovereign grace

--THe Mark--
To Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength

Not convinced.

Like i said above

God Created us to be Loved and SO we could Love him - Not Vain

True Love wouldnt exist if we werent created - Self-Love (Vainity) is not True love

Not convinced.



What do u mean? Whats to convince?

I see what your saying,

-"true" predestination-

his choice of me is a cause for me to love him back / be saved

His choice of me causes me to reject him - not to logical

--Free will--
His choice for me / WOW I WANT to love him back

His Choice for Me / I Reject it


I believe in both, but that is my belief either way it still shows God's love for us and his sovereign grace

I agree with the predestination, but you know that.

Free will is impossible IMO.

EDIT: except for God free will is possible for him as he is his own cause.

I agree with the predestination, but you know that.

Free will is impossible IMO.



Either Way still leads to the same conclusion - That God Loves us


TO find out about a "christian" Free will read about - Arminianism

To find out about a "christian" Predestination read about - Calvinism

Ill be on later g2g

What do u mean? Whats to convince?

How can you love something you dont even know?

Either Way still leads to the same conclusion - That God Loves us


TO find out about a "christian" Free will read about - Arminianism

To find out about a "christian" Predestination read about - Calvinism

Ill be on later g2g

It doesn't lead to that conclusion if God allows us to serve an eternity in Hell for our "sins" if free will doesn't exist.

I've read up on Calvinism, I'll check out Arminianism.

... Jesus tore this down. A tailor couldn't take 2 needles home, that would be a violation of the sabbath, but he could take one home for an emergency, Jesus healed on the sabbath, he ate grain on the sabbath. He stated that if one of your donkeys falls into the well on the sabbath, you would certainly labor to get it out of there.

You don't even know your own bible. Jesus never worked on the Sabbath, but
one of his disciples did (I forget which). And if Jesus did work on the Sabbath he should have been put to death as is the law Exodus 31:14.

And Jesus didn't tear down the old laws Mathew 5:17-20.

People can twist the laws up

Quoted for irony.

God did not want them to eat from the tree. They had a choice

They didn't have a choice. Originally they had no knowledge of good/evil so they didn't know it was wrong to eat the fruit. If they didn't know it was wrong then they couldn't choose to disobey.

It was only after they ate the fruit that they knew it was wrong. God set them up to eat the fruit so he could punish them for it.

Why all the drama? Why is God cruel? I don't know, it's your myth.

It doesn't lead to that conclusion if God allows us to serve an eternity in Hell for our "sins" if free will doesn't exist.

I've read up on Calvinism, I'll check out Arminianism.

If God exists then fatalism would exist making every action determined by him. No free will would exist meaning every choice is just an illusion. Which means people couldn't be blamed for their actions making eternal damnation unjust.