Just found this on youtube, haven't seen it in years. This is classic stuff, Ali at his witty best.


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Ali and Cus argue about Joe Louis

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Cool clips, Ali would've beaten Louis IMO.

Cool clips, Ali would've beaten Louis IMO.

Yeah I think so too, if Billy Conn could give Louis trouble with his movement and handspeed I'd hate to see what Ali would do to him

Good ones bean. Reps for you.

I disagree, Louis > Ali.

billy conn got wrecked in the rematch.
Louis had him figured out.
Say what you want, two ko wins can't be argued.

I just don't see how he could beat Ali. Ali was stronger and could take a better punch than Conn. I'd say Louis would catch him every now and then but if Ali could take the power of Liston, Foreman and Shavers he could take Louis' power IMO

I just don't see how he could beat Ali. Ali was stronger and could take a better punch than Conn. I'd say Louis would catch him every now and then but if Ali could take the power of Liston, Foreman and Shavers he could take Louis' power IMO

Ali also had a 1 inch height adv. a 4 inch reach adv. and was 5-10lbs heavier.

Louis had trouble with smaller guys though.
That was his bad match ups.

Louis had it easier fighting bigger guys.

Ali fought the hardest hitting boxers, and never got knocked out, However Ali has been knocked down by not so good boxers and got caught countless times in his career as well.

I like how ali disses HW's for poor footwork, they don't have poor footwork.. great footwork like ali means you don't want to get hit.
it doesn't necessarliy mean poor footwork.

Louis had trouble with smaller guys though.
That was his bad match ups.

Louis had it easier fighting bigger guys.

Ali fought the hardest hitting boxers, and never got knocked out, However Ali has been knocked down by not so good boxers and got caught countless times in his career as well.

I like how ali disses HW's for poor footwork, they don't have poor footwork.. great footwork like ali means you don't want to get hit.
it doesn't necessarliy mean poor footwork.

But none of the big guys Louis fought could move their hands or feet like Ali. I think Louis liked big guys because they were slower and he was a big hitter who was better technically.

While Ali has been knocked down, he's never been knocked out. He probably didn't take those fights as seriously and that was a big reason why he got caught. While I won't say he wouldn't get caught by Louis, I will say he would definetly be trying not to get hit; more so than he would against lesser competition.

I think ali would decisioned louis the first time.

The rematch would be different.
Louis would study him..

Nobody can beat louis two times. NOBODY!

Billy Conn, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, and Cus all agree.

I think ali would decisioned louis the first time.

The rematch would be different.
Louis would study him..

Nobody can beat louis two times. NOBODY!

We agree on the first match.

Foreman and Frazier didn't even fight Ali in his prime, so their opinions are equal to any boxing historian IMO.

I could make the statement that nobody beats Ali, atleast not back in his prime; as his first loss didn't come till after the 3 year lay off.

Ali fought the greatest competition of any heavyweight champ and always came out on top(except the Frazier and Norton losses) and most of that competition he beat after his layoff, using more of his witts than his pure athleticism.

I just don't see Louis catching Ali more times than not.

I think ali would decisioned louis the first time.

The rematch would be different.
Louis would study him..

Nobody can beat louis two times. NOBODY!

Ali > Louis

times ten

<------------best boxing poster ever

Sorry currykain.

Dec 14 - Joe Louis, landing what he called " the hardest punch I ever threw" floors iron-chinned Paulino Uzcudun with a right in the fourth round, New York. The punch drives Uzcudun's teeth through his mouthpiece and upper lip, bout is stopped moments later.

joe's power is underrated.
People assume shavers hit harder, and foreman.
but louis had better precision, accuracy, timing, speed, and better combos than any of them Liston's, frazier's, foreman's, and Shaver's.

Louis FTW.

"Joe Louis was so far and away the greatest that it is almost an insult to rank anyone second to him," says Foreman. "He was the pure heavyweight. A machine whose timing of the knockout punch was sweet perfection."


"Muhammad was some self-publicist but when future generations switch off the sound and watch the video they will recognise Louis as the greatest," says Foreman.

Louis had trouble with smaller guys though.
That was his bad match ups.

Louis had it easier fighting bigger guys.

Ali fought the hardest hitting boxers, and never got knocked out, However Ali has been knocked down by not so good boxers and got caught countless times in his career as well.

I like how ali disses HW's for poor footwork, they don't have poor footwork.. great footwork like ali means you don't want to get hit.
it doesn't necessarliy mean poor footwork.


Louis had trouble with Cons speed,He had it easier with the big guys because they were less mobile and he could track them down a lot easier,plus the big guys he fouyght in the 'bum of the month' fights were hardly the calibre of Liston etc.
Theres no doubting Louis' power but Ali took the best of Shavers,Foreman,Liston and Frazier,all of whom hit as hard if not harder than Louis.
The only way joe could beat Ali would be on points which in my opinion just wouldnt happen.
Alis hand and footspeed when he was at his best would've been too much for Joe IMO.Ali was faster and more mobile than Conn who gave a prime Louis fits in their first fight
As much as I love Louis I'll go with Ali by wide UD or maybe even a TKO.Ali was bigger,faster,stronger and he had the chin and stamina to ensure he could survive a Louis bomb if he did get tagged.

Who were the 'not so good boxers' that knocked Ali down?

Ali was green and overconfident when he got dropped by Cooper,and he was tired and not at his best after the layoff when he got dropped by Frazier in their superfight.
In reguards to Ali getting caught 'countless times' in his career, that is true but he was well past his best in the mid-late 70's and reguardless of getting hit with shots that he wouldnt have got caught with in his prime he still managed to take them and find a way to win.
Thats part of what made him great.Who'd have thought that Ali could lay on the ropes against Foreman and take his shots and tire Foreman out?
That was an Ali strategy that he actually came up with during the fight.When he realsied he couldnt dance and move because of Foremans ability to cut off the ring he had to improvise and thats just what he did.Thus the 'rope a dope' was born
Ali also let Ron Lyle beat him up for most of the fight till he saw the right time in the 11th rd to cut loose.
Before Alis exile he was so fast and dominant that no one really knew if he could take a shot or come from behind to win.Could he dig deep and pull it out when he was behind?No-one knew.
However, after the exile when he came back he proved he was no frontrunner, and not unlike Louis he was also patient and virtually impossible to discourage.And you can add to this his chin of steel.
That makes him extremely difficult to beat at his best.
I just can't see how the smaller,slower Louis could win the fight.

^ Great points.

I'm a big fan of guys like Louis and Marciano, they had amazing assets, but you'd have to be blind not to recognize their flaws.

In my mind Ali is undoubtedly #1 and Larry Holmes is #2, and I think either of those guys would give Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, ect boxing lessons.

Also on the subject of Big George's opinions, I'd like to bring up one of my favorite quotes from him.

(Roy Jones knocks Thorton down with a big left hook)

Foreman: He puts no arm into his punches, its all fist - like hands of stone.

Merchant: Well George he gets his shoulder into his punches...

Foreman: Nope, its all FIST.

I'm a big Foreman man, but sometimes the guy isn't all there.

Also on the subject of Big George's opinions, I'd like to bring up one of my favorite quotes from him.

(Roy Jones knocks Thorton down with a big left hook)

Foreman: He puts no arm into his punches, its all fist - like hands of stone.

Merchant: Well George he gets his shoulder into his punches...

Foreman: Nope, its all FIST.

I'm a big Foreman man, but sometimes the guy isn't all there.

I liked it how Larry pulls no punches when he's commentating.Most commentators out of respect will let it slide when a boxing legend such as George says something silly.
but if Larry doesnt agree with some point a co commentator makes he lets them know,no matter who it is.

I bet if Ali was the general of the army, he would have won many wars. People don't want to talk about it, but he was master of strategy.

Ali had the gift of the gab.
Its amazing how a fighter with barely any education was able to go out and give motivational and entertaining lectures to Uni students and the likes without notes or anything.
He had exceptional mental prowess to go with his incredible physical attributes.He was one of those fighters that comes along once in a lifetime

"Debating dream-fights are great fun but they're just speculation, nothing more.
Ultimately it comes off as knocking one man's achievements in order to bolster and support the argument of the other guy winning".

"188 lb Doug Jones was robbed, Ali was booed out of MSG.
185 lb Henry Cooper almost KO’d Ali with 1 hook, Angie split Ali’s glove to delay.
Liston and “anchor punch” is fishy.
Chuvalo deserved more rds for body work the 1st fight.
5'11" 205 lb Frazier beat Ali in 1st fight, was robbed in 2nd fight.
Ali got knocked down against sonny banks when he tried to come in.
Norton really won all 3.
Ron Lyle robbed in bogus stoppage.
Jimmy Young robbed. Spinks, Holmes, Berbick don’t count.
Ali fought ‘em all and is still in top 5 All-Time".

No matter what, I would always think louis would beat ali.

you guys are bringing up the conn fight, who came out on top?
Louis TWICE!
Two ko victiories.

The conn rematch, louis had him figured out and conn got butt raped in that fight.


Louis was at his best when the 175lb outboxed him for the better part of 13 rds.
And the rematch 5 yrs later was irrelevant because both wree past it,particularly Conn.

All of Alis losses or dubious decisions came when he was either green[Doug Jones]or old.
The Ali from '64-67 was imo as close to the perfect HW boxer as has ever been seen.
Its a pity the public was robbed of Alis prime yrs as he was sctually getting better and better each time out up untill the exile.
And i cant agree that Frazier won the 2nd fight.Aldmittadly Frazier wasnt the same fighter he was in their first fight and Ali did enough to get the nod IMO.
The only fighter Ali couldnt beat was Ken Norton.
I thought Ali barely shaded the 2nd fight but lost the other 2.
Ali was done after the 3rd Frazier fight and the fights after that I dont even consider relevant because he was a shell of himself.U could make an arguement that he lost to not only Young but also Shavers,both of whom Ali would have boxed rings around at his best.

No way did Frazier win that 2nd fight. Frazier was flat that night.

Also I'd never try to deminish Louis' accomplishments. Truth be told I'm a huge Joe Louis fan and am not to big on Ali, who I think people overrate as a person and romanticize his "achievements" outside the ring during his career. I just think Ali has the style to outbox and beat Louis by decision, just too fast with his feet, hands and thought process for Joe, who is know to struggle with crafty guys like Conn and Jersey Joe Walcott (on the subject of dubious decisions, Jersey Joe got ROBBED in their first fight). If you stood in front of Louis you were dead already, but prime Ali would never let Louis get set, and like Jim mentioned the only real times Prime Ali was caught or dropped was when he fought down to the level of his opponent or underestimated someone. You gotta figure he wouldn't do either against a guy like Louis.

No way did Frazier win that 2nd fight. Frazier was flat that night.

Also I'd never try to deminish Louis' accomplishments. Truth be told I'm a huge Joe Louis fan and am not to big on Ali, who I think people overrate as a person and romanticize his "achievements" outside the ring during his career. I just think Ali has the style to outbox and beat Louis by decision, just too fast with his feet, hands and thought process for Joe, who is know to struggle with crafty guys like Conn and Jersey Joe Walcott (on the subject of dubious decisions, Jersey Joe got ROBBED in their first fight). If you stood in front of Louis you were dead already, but prime Ali would never let Louis get set, and like Jim mentioned the only real times Prime Ali was caught or dropped was when he fought down to the level of his opponent or underestimated someone. You gotta figure he wouldn't do either against a guy like Louis.

Its good that u can preference Joe over Ali but still be objective enough to pick a winner based on facts and not preference.
To me its a given that if Conn can befuddle and utilise his speed to outbox Louis then the bigger faster and granite chinned Ali would do the same only more convincingly without getting caught.
Conn actually had the fight if he'd have listened to his corner and just boxed and moved for the final 9 minutes.Instead he got overzealous and went for the KO and wound up getting Koed

"What's the point of being Irish if you can't be stupid?"

hahaha

kool clips

Louis > Ali.

Ali can't dance around Joe for 12 or 15 rounds and expect to get a decision.
Ali will engage a few times, and get mauled by joe's punching.

A flat footed slow hw in joe frazier beat ali convincingly the first time, yeah I know he was on a long layoff, but imo Joe beat Ali the second time as well.
No reason why Louis can't.
whom I think Louis would carv up joe frazier pretty brutally as well.

Frazier/Louis would be classic. Could go either way IMO, I'd favor Louis because he was a two handed puncher.

Louis > Ali.

Ali can't dance around Joe for 12 or 15 rounds and expect to get a decision.
Ali will engage a few times, and get mauled by joe's punching.

A flat footed slow hw in joe frazier beat ali convincingly the first time, yeah I know he was on a long layoff, but imo Joe beat Ali the second time as well.
No reason why Louis can't.
whom I think Louis would carv up joe frazier pretty brutally as well.

He never really moved the same after the layoff.

He never really moved the same after the layoff.

well the thing is, Ali tried to fight frazier, and that was a bad thing.
Someone made a good point about it, "in the first fight it was a street fight, and frazier whooped him".
Ali didn't dance around the ring like he should've.

No way Frazier won that second fight.

did anyone here see the entire first Ali Frazier fight? it was alot closer than people make out

It was by no means a blowout, Ali was in the fight the whole time, but Frazier just outworked him for the majority of the rounds. Ali had his moments but Frazier had the effective aggressiveness and great body work. Whereas in the second fight, Frazier wasn't nearly as effective.

Plus it didn't hurt that Frazier put Ali on his fuckin ass

No way did Frazier win that 2nd fight. Frazier was flat that night.

Also I'd never try to deminish Louis' accomplishments. Truth be told I'm a huge Joe Louis fan and am not to big on Ali, who I think people overrate as a person and romanticize his "achievements" outside the ring during his career. I just think Ali has the style to outbox and beat Louis by decision, just too fast with his feet, hands and thought process for Joe, who is know to struggle with crafty guys like Conn and Jersey Joe Walcott (on the subject of dubious decisions, Jersey Joe got ROBBED in their first fight). If you stood in front of Louis you were dead already, but prime Ali would never let Louis get set, and like Jim mentioned the only real times Prime Ali was caught or dropped was when he fought down to the level of his opponent or underestimated someone. You gotta figure he wouldn't do either against a guy like Louis.

Mayweather?

Frazier rocked ali in the first fight, besides the knockdown.I had frazier easily winning that first fight.

and I had frazier winning the second fight, and also ken norton was robbed in both of those matches.
Jim Lampley even said it about the second joe frazier fight in Joe Frazier's beyond the glory, "it was a fight that could've went both ways, but ali won it, because he was ali, Ali can't lose twice to the same guy".

Ali wobbled Frazier in the 2nd fight with a straight right.

ali is one of my favs, but I think that frazier was just a terrible matchup for him.