Hey guys, for the past few months I haven't been lifting as much as I should, probably twice a week at most. I'm going to get back into it now, but I'm thinking about trying out a new routine for my upper body. My old one was usually something like 3-4 sets of benchpress, 3-4 sets of military press, 3-4 sets of dips, 3-4 tricep extensions with a barbell, and then some other random tricep work out, like maybe a machine or something. I have always felt very strong, but I did not get the size I wanted out of my old workout, most likely because I had a tendency to do higher reps like 10-12. So For the new routine I'm thinking about going higher weight and less reps (obviously).

Any suggestions on some routines to get bigger arms, chest, and shoulders?

First, the bench press, dips, and military press all work the same muscle (front of the shoulder) in a similar way. You should probably choose only one of these and do it for several weeks then switch. Also, considering that you're already doing a major upper body pressing movement you probably don't need to do two more triceps exercises, one should be enough.

http://www.exrx.net/Graphics/DeltoidAnteriorFront.gif

Second, look into adding some type of rowing motion: pull-ups, chin-ups, seated row, lat pull down, bent over row ect. Heavy pulling is one of the better ways to develop your biceps.

Third, it's basically impossible to add inches of muscle to your upper body without adding significant weight to your legs and back for example. Also, try training heavier with more time to rest between sets. Keep reps between 5-8, but don't go to failure. The final thing to keep in mind is diet. Are you getting enough protein?

I'm pretty sure I get enough protein, I eat tons of chicken and turkey.

Thats a good call on the rowing motion, I used to do pullups all the time. Picking that up again should help a lot.

You need to squat.

....

ok, firstly, if you aren't gaining muscular size, you aren't eating enough. you say you're getting enough protein, great. up the calories, carbs, and fats. you need all of these to sustain energy levels, to feed your muscles and to grow. just make sure that you get them from clean sources.

it's been touched upon, but drop the volume. it's way too much. you HAVE to squat. you should deadlift. bent over rows will add mass to your lats, rear delts, traps, and biceps. you're a wrestler right? power cleans are a staple for the sport. they'll develop explosiveness, size, strength and total body coordination like nothing else.

military press and bench press should be alternated. you can do them on different days, or like tapout said, do one for a few weeks, then change over.

you have the right idea with the lower reps and higher weight. you'll get soo much stronger than you thought you were. the lower volume should also keep your muscles from feeling too sore or overtrain.

an overall body routine might look like this:

monday
squats 5x5
bulgarian split squats 3x8
front squat 4x3

wednesday
bent over rows/weighted pullups 5x5
military press/bench 5x5
weighted dips 3x8

friday
power cleans 4x3
deadlift 5x5
romanian/straight leg deadlift 3x8

all of these excercises should be done with as much weight as you can move for their respective reps. usually 80-85% of your 1 rep max for the 5x5. the key is to progress! so whether you are adding a bit of weight each workout, doing more reps, or having less rest between them..you have to progress.

you can obviously change the excercises around if you don't like to do too many similar movements in one day. i personally split them up so that im fresher for each movement.

this still might be too much volume if you are in season, but once you up your caloric intake, you WILL gain weight, get crazy strong, and throw peeps around.

wtf Deegs are you a personal trainer or something?

I never knew you knew so much about bodybuilding and shit

I came into this to offer my advice but Deegs beat me to it... you definitely need to drop the volume a ton... 5 exercises working the same-ish bodypart will not produce results unless you are taking the juice and eating whole cows in one sitting...

Just eat more and make sure you increase every workout... I posted in another thread about that... like Deegs said, add more weight or reps every workout... if you find yourself stuck, go to the hardware store and cut some 1lb chain and add that to the bar... when you start to reach a plateau adding 1-3lbs to the bar won't seem like much but it will help like you'd never believe...

ok, firstly, if you aren't gaining muscular size, you aren't eating enough. you say you're getting enough protein, great. up the calories, carbs, and fats. you need all of these to sustain energy levels, to feed your muscles and to grow. just make sure that you get them from clean sources.

it's been touched upon, but drop the volume. it's way too much. you HAVE to squat. you should deadlift. bent over rows will add mass to your lats, rear delts, traps, and biceps. you're a wrestler right? power cleans are a staple for the sport. they'll develop explosiveness, size, strength and total body coordination like nothing else.

military press and bench press should be alternated. you can do them on different days, or like tapout said, do one for a few weeks, then change over.

you have the right idea with the lower reps and higher weight. you'll get soo much stronger than you thought you were. the lower volume should also keep your muscles from feeling too sore or overtrain.

an overall body routine might look like this:

monday
squats 5x5
bulgarian split squats 3x8
front squat 4x3

wednesday
bent over rows/weighted pullups 5x5
military press/bench 5x5
weighted dips 3x8

friday
power cleans 4x3
deadlift 5x5
romanian/straight leg deadlift 3x8

all of these excercises should be done with as much weight as you can move for their respective reps. usually 80-85% of your 1 rep max for the 5x5. the key is to progress! so whether you are adding a bit of weight each workout, doing more reps, or having less rest between them..you have to progress.

you can obviously change the excercises around if you don't like to do too many similar movements in one day. i personally split them up so that im fresher for each movement.

this still might be too much volume if you are in season, but once you up your caloric intake, you WILL gain weight, get crazy strong, and throw peeps around.

I agree with some of these but theres also some other tips you can do to breakthrough plateaus.

-5 by 5's(5 sets of 5 reps), 3 by 3's, 10-8-6 sets. Just change it up.
-Cheat sets(have a folded up towel on your chest for bench for instance. Have a spotter because on cheat sets you'll be pushing your body past its normal weight barriers so you need safety.)
-Change up the speed of which you lift at. Try doing slower sets. Then the next week do fast sets. Count the seconds it takes to do one rep. Then change it from there.
-Negatives(Lower the weight slowly back to its start position. This is useful because you've already pushed yoru muscle when it did the exercise, now it has to support the full weight coming back to its starting position).

CORE WORKOUT IS IMPORTANT! You see the TUF and stars training methods, start using some of their core exercises. Chuck does some good ones like when he's in teh push up position and he takes small plates and passes them across himself to the other side.

It's hard to develop other muscle without first building up your core so you can hold total weight better.


The other factors are nutrition and sleep. Sleep is hugely important.

kronk is right on, but DO NOT do any slow reps. it's ok for bodybuilding, but can be quite detrimental to performance. you are essentially teaching your muscle fibers to fire slowly. you want to explode through the rep.

when you get more advanced, look up the westside barbell training methods and westside for skinny bastards. they are performance based and will get you huge AND functional.

i don't recommend bodybuilding to anyone. it is extra weight/size with no real function but to sap oxygen. might as well just get the muscles implanted under your skin and save the time, because looks will be about the only benefit you'll get.

I'm learning a lot in this thread. I'm not sure which one to follow though

let me just restate what i meant by not doing slow reps.

respected profesionals in the sports performance industry believe in 3 types of strength training days.

1. Maximal Effort days - you lift as much west as you can as quickly as you can. usually in the 1-3 rep range. you are TRYING to lift fast, but due to the sheer amount of weight, it will be slow.

2. Dynamic Effort days - you choose about 50-60% of your 1 rep max and try to do this as explosively as you can. the point here is to build speed and explosive power. to teach your muscles how to fire quickly and efficiently. this is a necessity due to the slowness of the ME days.

3. Volume days - you essentially do a high amount of reps with less weight. the point being, to concentrate on muscular endurance and hypertrophy.

check out this link for more details. it's more complicated/advanced than doing something like i outlined or bill starr's 5x5, but definitely a great all around program.

http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/archive/articles_westside.htm

I find the Westside method very intuitive. The effort required to be technically sound in the bench, dead lift, and squat, shouldn't be overlooked. Also, understanding the science (including exercise selection and work capacity) and the way someone progresses aren't natural things, they have to be learned over time.

there is so many grate methods here but i still like the method with out weight like bruse lee he got all his mussels with out weight and he was bad ass cuz toomuch can slow u down all u nead to do is work on endurence the mussels will build from that to what your body neads cuz there is such a thing as too much mussels

there is so many grate methods here but i still like the method with out weight like bruse lee he got all his mussels with out weight and he was bad ass cuz toomuch can slow u down all u nead to do is work on endurence the mussels will build from that to what your body neads cuz there is such a thing as too much mussels

Man I don't think one thing you said throughout your entire post was true. I'll just assume you are severly intoxicated.

lol something like that

haha war deegs!

Thanks guys I appreciate the feedback a lot.

Deegs, I am a wrestler, but I'm not currently wrestling so don't worry about the in season stuff. But because of wrestling, and workouts I already do, I already have quite big strong legs. So I'll admit that I don't work them as much as I should. This wouldn't be the first time I have heard that working your lower body will in turn help the rest of the body, could you explain to me why that is?

Also, I am unfamiliar with the "bulgarian squats", explain please?

Bulgarian Squats

Stand approximately three to four feet in front of a bench with a barbell on your shoulders or a pair of dumbbells in your hands. Place your weight on one heel, and with the opposite leg, reach back and place the top of your toes on the edge of the bench. (Note: If you're having problems with the set-up, use an incline bench to "pin" your foot in and prevent it from moving around.)

Once you're locked in, "screw" your heel into the ground and elevate the rib cage. Lower your body down to a point where your opposite knee is very close to or lightly touches the ground, then drive up through the heel to the starting position. Perform for the necessary number of reps, then repeat on the opposite side.

http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/04-057-training/image006.jpg

http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/04-057-training/image008.jpg

http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/04-017-training/image024.jpg

http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/04-017-training/image026.jpg

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RZlodHgCipk&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RZlodHgCipk&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

^thanks, repd

Thanks guys I appreciate the feedback a lot.

Deegs, I am a wrestler, but I'm not currently wrestling so don't worry about the in season stuff. But because of wrestling, and workouts I already do, I already have quite big strong legs. So I'll admit that I don't work them as much as I should. This wouldn't be the first time I have heard that working your lower body will in turn help the rest of the body, could you explain to me why that is?

Also, I am unfamiliar with the "bulgarian squats", explain please?

well, it basically comes down to the size of the muscles that are worked. the quads, hamstrings, glutes, and back muscles constitute a huge amount of your muscle mass. working these hard in unison produces a high release of testosterone that can last for well over a day. add to this, the huge release of adrenalin if you are working them hard enough, and you've got a natural boost to all of your lifts. the released testosterone helps in making the other muscles that you work on grow and get stronger at a quicker rate and lose more fat. not to mention the improved neural efficiency that you get by training your central nervous system with heavy weights. you essentially train CNS to get used to handling that much weight. something that can't be done doing bicep curls.

there is also the belief that the body craves symmetry. it doesn't like to be unbalanced. if a certain part of your body is much stronger or larger than another, it can theoretically hamper the growth of other things.

it's 2 am so i hope that makes sense.

Yep..

www.stronglifts.com

This threads pretty awsome.

kronk is right on, but DO NOT do any slow reps. it's ok for bodybuilding, but can be quite detrimental to performance. you are essentially teaching your muscle fibers to fire slowly. you want to explode through the rep.

when you get more advanced, look up the westside barbell training methods and westside for skinny bastards. they are performance based and will get you huge AND functional.

i don't recommend bodybuilding to anyone. it is extra weight/size with no real function but to sap oxygen. might as well just get the muscles implanted under your skin and save the time, because looks will be about the only benefit you'll get.


Sportwise, bodybuilding is obviously pointless unless the sport you are doing is actual bodybuilding.

But their are other benefits with regards to looks, intimidation, sexual prowess, and the ability to constantly flex and say things like "DA BEACH IS DAT WAY!"

Furthermore bodybuilding is a good way to stay healthy without hurting yourself doing explosive weight training, it helps you mentally feel more confident in your body and helps with posture and is an anti-depressant.

Theres no need to bash bodybuilding Mr. Deegs. For the general population bodybuilding is excellent for you and a great way to live a longer, healthier, happier life.

P.S. Unless you are talking about professional bodybuilding where you become Phil Baroni'eque and get all jacked up muscle wise, in which case the beneftis start to reverse and theres all kinds of physical/mental problems involved with steroid use, Bigerexia, and lifestyle.

well, it basically comes down to the size of the muscles that are worked. the quads, hamstrings, glutes, and back muscles constitute a huge amount of your muscle mass. working these hard in unison produces a high release of testosterone that can last for well over a day. add to this, the huge release of adrenalin if you are working them hard enough, and you've got a natural boost to all of your lifts. the released testosterone helps in making the other muscles that you work on grow and get stronger at a quicker rate and lose more fat. not to mention the improved neural efficiency that you get by training your central nervous system with heavy weights. you essentially train CNS to get used to handling that much weight. something that can't be done doing bicep curls.

there is also the belief that the body craves symmetry. it doesn't like to be unbalanced. if a certain part of your body is much stronger or larger than another, it can theoretically hamper the growth of other things.

it's 2 am so i hope that makes sense.


I'm sorry this is just not true. There are tons of lifters at gyms across the world who have tiny legs and massive upper bodies. Its the biggest joke of all time because its pathetic.

The way you back up your point is very intelligent and makes sense on the surface but extensive proof against your theory is at basically any gym you visit.

Also your body doesn't necessarily want to be naturally symmetric and proof of this is how hard body builders work to even up their muscles so they're not laughed off the stage. I also am not symmetric because of surgery and never will be. Howevef, I work hard so as not to look anywhere symmetrically fucked as Greg Kovacks.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h83/kronker2/Arnold_Classic_2004_106.jpg




Edit: Heres the video from the infamous show. Hint: Check out his bicepts.

<div><object width="420" height="331"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x1fapx"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x1fapx" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="331" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1fapx_greg-kovacs-2004-arnold-classic_sport">Greg Kovacs - 2004 Arnold Classic</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/Tech9">Tech9</a></i></div>



I'm not flaming you or anything but I just have a different opinion. You're very educated in lifting and I support anyone following your advice.

I'm sorry this is just not true. There are tons of lifters at gyms across the world who have tiny legs and massive upper bodies. Its the biggest joke of all time because its pathetic.

The way you back up your point is very intelligent and makes sense on the surface but extensive proof against your theory is at basically any gym you visit.


I'm not flaming you or anything but I just have a different opinion. You're very educated in lifting and I support anyone following your advice.


"there is also the belief that the body craves symmetry. it doesn't like to be unbalanced. if a certain part of your body is much stronger or larger than another, it can theoretically hamper the growth of other things."

this is the only part of my post that isn't a fact. just opinion. it's only something that i've read and come across it a few times. still, it's simply a blanket statement and a generalization. so definitely feel free to disagree as i take no offense.

i've thought about the whole twig legs and huge upper body thing lots of times when thinking about the body trying to be symmetrical. i don't mean to say that the body will not let you grow in isolation, only that you will have to work that much harder to achieve the upper body results.

i think about it this way:

generally, if you train the body as a whole, you will achieve greater results everywhere. i believe that if those gymrats squatted and deadlifted like crazy, they would have to train the upperbody alot less often to get the same results due to the increases in growth hormone and a whole shitload of other benefits.

"there is also the belief that the body craves symmetry. it doesn't like to be unbalanced. if a certain part of your body is much stronger or larger than another, it can theoretically hamper the growth of other things."

this is the only part of my post that isn't a fact. just opinion. it's only something that i've read and come across it a few times. still, it's simply a blanket statement and a generalization. so definitely feel free to disagree as i take no offense.

i've thought about the whole twig legs and huge upper body thing lots of times when thinking about the body trying to be symmetrical. i don't mean to say that the body will not let you grow in isolation, only that you will have to work that much harder to achieve the upper body results.

i think about it this way:

generally, if you train the body as a whole, you will achieve greater results everywhere. i believe that if those gymrats squatted and deadlifted like crazy, they would have to train the upperbody alot less often to get the same results due to the increases in growth hormone and a whole shitload of other benefits.


Exactly.

Bigger the trunk, bigger the branches.

I started the Westside Barbell for Skinny Bastards workout today.

I can't lift my arms right now. I had to answer the phone and to do so I had to use my other arm to hold my elbow up.


I completed:

3 sets of max reps, rest 60 seconds between sets of Dumbbell benches on Swiss ball
3 sets of 8 reps, Dumbbell triceps extension on a flat bench

Then I got to what was meant to be 4 sets of 8-12 pullups/chin ups but only managed 8 on set one 5 on set two and 1 on set three

3 sets of 10 reps Bradford presses (at this point I wanted to kill someone)
3 sets of 10 reps Preacher curls with extra weight on the last set

I skipped the ab exercises because I was too fucked up.

Are there any stretches I can do to speed up recovery?

you can use a foam roller tommorow along with some stretching to speed up recovery abit. rob, eat TONS. get as much sleep as you can, you'll still be sore since you just started, but that should help out.

if you don't have a foam roller, this is what they look like:

http://optp.com/index.cfm/pageid/106

just find something around the house to mimmick it.

I have a hand held massager similar to this at home.

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/51524952/Hand_Held_Infrared_Heat_Vibrating_Massager.jpg

Will it do the same job? I used to use this after kickboxing lessons when my thighs were very tight but I'm not sure whether or not this actually helps the recovery process.

Booooo 12 reps!!!

Some people (including me) just have a very hard time putting mass on certain muscle groups, but seem to be naturally large in others. Personally i've found that there's really nothing I can do to make my arms and calves proportionate, although my chest, shoulders, thighs, etc have no problem at all. They have the strength, just not the mass, and everytime I try to build my biceps up all I accomplish is making them look worse b/c the rest of me gets bigger, faster...and i've tried alot.

^ yea, everyone's physiology is different. like tendon/muscle length and insertion points. that makes a big difference in how much your muscle can actually grow, even though it can be just as strong as someone with a more aesthetic muscle.

i have naturally narrow shoulders, so the amount of mass that i can put on and not look stupid is not a lot. i'd rather be thinner and not have sloping shoulders than look like wand jaja.

^ yea, everyone's physiology is different. like tendon/muscle length and insertion points. that makes a big difference in how much your muscle can actually grow, even though it can be just as strong as someone with a more aesthetic muscle.

i have naturally narrow shoulders, so the amount of mass that i can put on and not look stupid is not a lot. i'd rather be thinner and not have sloping shoulders than look like wand jaja.

Yea wand has some narrow shoulders for sure.

^ yea, everyone's physiology is different. like tendon/muscle length and insertion points. that makes a big difference in how much your muscle can actually grow, even though it can be just as strong as someone with a more aesthetic muscle.

i have naturally narrow shoulders, so the amount of mass that i can put on and not look stupid is not a lot. i'd rather be thinner and not have sloping shoulders than look like wand jaja.

Yeah, I finally give up having big 'guns' when I realized I was just as strong as most guys with those 'guns'.

I used to be bummed about not being able to have massive biceps, but then I realized it can be fun pwning guys (in the gym) that are alot bigger, just not stronger. :yes:

Its ok guys, I figured out the secret. Chipotle.

man this stuff is complicated and makes my head spin

I just pick up rock, rock make me strong

man this stuff is complicated and makes my head spin

I just pick up rock, rock make me strong

Indeed.

jajaja pretty much true

man this stuff is complicated and makes my head spin

I just pick up rock, rock make me strong

Thats basically it. Lol.

Bodybuilding is extremely complicated. It's definitely an intense sport and also an artform in many ways. It's like sculpting a statue, except that statue is a human made of blood, muscle and bone. It's insane how you can change your body. But... complicated.

well, it basically comes down to the size of the muscles that are worked. the quads, hamstrings, glutes, and back muscles constitute a huge amount of your muscle mass. working these hard in unison produces a high release of testosterone that can last for well over a day. add to this, the huge release of adrenalin if you are working them hard enough, and you've got a natural boost to all of your lifts. the released testosterone helps in making the other muscles that you work on grow and get stronger at a quicker rate and lose more fat. not to mention the improved neural efficiency that you get by training your central nervous system with heavy weights. you essentially train CNS to get used to handling that much weight. something that can't be done doing bicep curls.

there is also the belief that the body craves symmetry. it doesn't like to be unbalanced. if a certain part of your body is much stronger or larger than another, it can theoretically hamper the growth of other things.

it's 2 am so i hope that makes sense.

You know your shit man. Repped