Roger clemens has been named already

this is gonna be nuts.

clemens should be no surprise. people here in texas dont wanna hear it but would crush him if he was someone else.

I question bagwell & biggio too

I just came across this, and am shocked because I heard it wasn't supposed to be released for another hour or so.

They all cheated with steroids (along with the laundry list below).

The Senate's Mitchell Report was just released, and the list is stunning.

* Roger Clemens
* Barry Bonds
* Albert Pujols
* Jason Giambi
* Ken Caminitti
* Albert Belle
* Jose Canseco

A
* Brady Anderson
* Manny Alexander
* Rick Ankiel
B
* Jeff Bagwell
* Rafael Bettancourt
* Aaron Boone
* Bret Boone
* Milton Bradley
* David Bell
* Dante Bichette
* Paul Byrd
C
* Wil Cordero
* Mike Cameron
* Ozzi Canseco
* Ramon Castro
* Paxton Crawford
D, E, F
* Wilson Delgado
* Lenny Dykstra
* Johnny Damon
* Carl Everett
* Kyle Farnsworth
* Ryan Franklin
G
* Troy Glaus
* Rich Garces
* Jason Grimsley
* Juan Gonzalez
* Eric Gagne
* Nomar Garciaparra
* Jeremy Giambi
* Jose Guillen
* Jay Gibbons
H, I, J, K, L
* Clay Hensley
* Jerry Hairston
* Felix Heredia, Jr.
* Darren Holmes
* Wally Joyner
* Darryl Kile
* Matt Lawton
M
* Raul Mondesi
* Mark McGwire
* Guillermo Mota
* Robert Machado
* Damian Moss
N, O, P
* Abraham Nunez
* Trot Nixon
* Jose Offerman
* Andy Pettitte
* Mark Prior
* Neifi Perez
* Rafael Palmiero
* Albert Pujols
R
* Brian Roberts
* Juan Rincon
* John Rocker
* Pudge Rodriguez
S
* Sammy Sosa
* Scott Schoenweiis
* David Segui
* Alex Sanchez
* Gary Sheffield
T, U, V
* Miguel Tejada
* Julian Tavarez
* Fernando Tatis
* Maurice Vaughn
* Jason Varitek
W, X, Y, Z
* Ismael Valdez
* Matt Williams
* Kerry Wood

__________________

rep'd killa, i just read that mlb officials said it's not accurate

:shok:

rep'd killa, i just read that mlb officials said it's not accurate

interesting, we'll see.

do you know if they meant if the mitchell report isn't accurate or if the released report isn't really the mitchell report?

interesting, we'll see.

do you know if they meant if the mitchell report isn't accurate or if the released report isn't really the mitchell report?

they said the report you posted(the same one from nbc.com) wasn't entirely accurate. i'm sure most of it is though. i can't believe vtek is on the list.

http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf

http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf

Almost every MVP in the last 15 years is on that list. They should take all their awards away.

Darryl Kile was found dead in his hotel room a couple years ago, too.

Almost every MVP in the last 15 years is on that list. They should take all their awards away.

Without a fucking doubt.they may as well just start a whole new league for roided out cheaters.These people are supposed to be role models.:banthem:

It seems like the report that the initial list not being entirely right is true. I'm seeing names turn up that aren't on that list. Greg Zaun and Ron Villone being 2.

i cant find brady anderson either. im pretty sure he did them though lol.

anybody got the new list? i'm not reading 400 pages lol edit:

The List:

Rick Ankiel
David Bell
Mike Bell
Gary Bennett Jr
Larry Bigbie
Barry Bonds
Kevin Brown
Paul Byrd
Jose Canseco
Mark Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Howie Clark
Roger Clemens
Jack Cust
Brendan Donnelly
Chris Donnels
Lenny Dykstra
Matt Franco
Ryan Franklin
Eric Gagne
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston Jr
Matt Herges
Phil Hiatt
Glenallen Hill
Darren Holmes
Todd Hundley
David Justice
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Laker
Mike Lansing
Paul Lo Duca
Nook Logan
Gary Matthews Jr
Josias Mazanillo
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Bart Miadich
Hal Morris
Danny Neagle
Jim Parque
Andy Pettite
Adam Piatt
Todd Pratt
Stephen Randolph
Brian Roberts
John Rocker lol
Adam Riggs
F.P. Santangelo
David Segui
Scott Shoeneweis
Mike Stanton
Miguel Tejada
Ismael Valdez
Mo Vaughn
Fernando Vina
Ron Villone
Rondell White
Jeff Williams
Matt Williams
Todd Williams
Steve Woodard
Kevin Young
__________________

It sounds like some people he has solid evidence on, like Clemens, and there are some guys that he lists that he has no evidence other than hearsay.

Former teammate Chad Allen told George Mitchell's investigative staff that he found unused syringes in a drawer after allowing Gary Matthews Jr. to live in his condo in 2004.

It was previously reported that Matthews had HGH shipped to him, but he has denied using the substance. In December the commissioner's office announced that there was insufficient evidence to take action against Matthews.

I'm not Gary Matthews defender here, but how is that evidence?

It sounds like some people he has solid evidence on, like Clemens, and there are some guys that he lists that he has no evidence other than hearsay.

So if he has no evidence then is this just some big red McCarthy scare or some shit?

Just putting this out there, no matter what people are going to hear it and believe it. Chances are it could very well all be true. However, I just think it is irresponsible to list names of certain guys when you don't have real evidence on them.

This report is great. It is a joke just like the witch-hunt that Barry Bonds has been forced through. Hopefully some of these more popular players will go through the same scrutiny. I really feel Bonds has paid a price because he is such a good player and not an outgoing personality.

Former teammate Larry Bigbie said Brian Roberts admitted to injecting himself with steroids once or twice in 2003.

Bigbie and Roberts lived together in admitted steroid user David Segui's house for a time, but Roberts never used then, according to Bigbie. It was only later that he tried steroids. Bigbie said he had never suspected Roberts until that admission.

worst evidence ever

Also I'm glad to see that Varitek isn't actually on the list (not that I'm naive enough to believe that makes him innocent.)

According to the Mitchell Commission report, here are players mentioned and how they are linked to performance enhancing substances:

Information Learned During this Investigation Concerning BALCO and Major League Baseball (8 players/ 3 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "I requested interviews of all the major league players who had been publicly implicated in the BALCO case."

Marvin Benard
Barry Bonds
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Randy Velarde

Information Regarding Purchases or Use of Performance Enhancing Substances by Players in Major League Baseball (53 players/ 18 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "The following discussion is organized in roughly chronological order. Records do not exist to document every transaction described by witnesses. [Kirk] Radomski stated that, with one exception noted below, the payments he received from professional baseball players were for performance enhancing substances, as opposed to personal training or other services, and this assertion was confirmed by those players who agreed to speak with us about their dealings with him."

Lenny Dykstra
David Segui
Larry Bigbie
Brian Roberts
Jack Cust
Tim Laker
Josias Manzanillo
Todd Hundley
Mark Carreon
Hal Morris
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Chuck Knoblauch
Jason Grimsley
Gregg Zaun
David Justice
F.P. Santangelo
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone
Ryan Franklin
Chris Donnels
Todd Williams
Phil Hiatt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Adam Piatt
Miguel Tejada
Jason Christiansen
Mike Stanton
Stephen Randolph
Jerry Hairston, Jr.
Paul Lo Duca
Adam Riggs
Bart Miadich
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown
Eric Gagné
Mike Bell
Matt Herges
Gary Bennett, Jr.
Jim Parque
Brendan Donnelly
Chad Allen
Jeff Williams
Howie Clark
Exavier "Nook" Logan

Alleged Internet Purchases of Performance Enhancing Substances By Players in Major League Baseball (16 players, 8 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "Since the initial news reports of the raid by New York and Florida law enforcement officials on Signature Pharmacy and several rejuvenation centers, the names of several current and former major league players have appeared in the media as alleged purchasers of performance enhancing substances through these operations. These include:"

Rick Ankiel
Paul Byrd
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Scott Schoeneweis
David Bell
Jose Canseco
Jason Grimsley
Darren Holmes
John Rocker
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard

ESPN.com

This report is great. It is a joke just like the witch-hunt that Barry Bonds has been forced through. Hopefully some of these more popular players will go through the same scrutiny. I really feel Bonds has paid a price because he is such a good player and not an outgoing personality.

Absolutely...its easy to crucify someone you dont like & bonds isnt a media darling so they put an image out there and fans eat it up

bagwell, biggio, pettite, clemens, caminitti, kile & luis gonzalez are all former astros & considered 'good guys'

just because guys arent on this list doesnt mean they didnt use, they could just have other sources

Without a fucking doubt.they may as well just start a whole new league for roided out cheaters.These people are supposed to be role models.:banthem:

I want Miguel Tejada's and Mo Vaughn's MVP's taken away. They have copies of their checks in the report. That should be enough evidence.

It's a slipperly slope when you start talking about taking past awards away. I mean, you mention two players right there, but dont forget guys like Canseco in 88, Bonds a boat load of times, Giambi in 2000.

I think you leave awards as they are. It's the past and who is to say they are the only people cheating. They're just the only ones caught (or allegedly caught.) Then you get into the semantics of what qualifies as being worthy of taking an award away and what doesn't. You've gotta just leave things the way they are. History will tell the story. The clowd of steriods will sit over this whole era of baseball. Taking awards away will only serve to cloud things even further.

If the Olympics can take medals away, baseball should be able to take awards away. Take Clemens' awards away too. Take all their individual awards away. They're tainted anyway.

Ken Caminiti too, take his away.

if that's the case, take away clemens; 7 cy young awards

Just take the ones he won after he started using.

LOL@ Wally Joyner and Todd Hundley.

Where is Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Phil Nevin, Adrian Beltre, Bret Boone, Javy Lopez, Rafael Palmeiro and Nomar Garciaparra?

If the Olympics can take medals away, baseball should be able to take awards away. Take Clemens' awards away too. Take all their individual awards away. They're tainted anyway.

The Olympics isn't a decent comparison when you consider they heavily test everyone, and baseball has only been testing for a couple years. You definitely can't take awards away for guys who won them when steriods weren't expressly banned by major league rules. I know, I know, they're against the law. So is marajuana, but you're not gonna take mvp awards away for that. I mean, what about pitchers who doctor balls. Guys who cork their bats. Where do you stop?

Leave the MVP and CY Young awards be. Taking them away only serves to punish those who were successful. It does nothing to the Nook Logans of the world, who are just as guilty of cheating as the guys who are successful. Even moreso in my mind because maybe Roids are what was keeping Logan in the majors, and keeping someone else from making the 380k a year salary.

You know what you do. You have a display in the hall of fame that talks about this era of baseball being marred by steriods. You include the names of those who were proven to have done steriods. You include everyone who tested possitive and were suspended. This explains to everyone the reality of the situation, tarnishes the name of everyone deserving, but preserves the history of the game. Stripping awards is just lame. I mean, let's face it, it happened. They won the award. They used steriods and hgh to outperform a bunch of guys who were also on steriods and hgh. It is what it is. I love this sport. It sucks. Bad. I just don't think trying to erase history is the answer.

LOL@ Wally Joyner and Todd Hundley.

Where is Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Phil Nevin, Adrian Beltre, Bret Boone, Javy Lopez, Rafael Palmeiro and Nomar Garciaparra?

This isn't an exhaustive list. It'd be naive to think not being on the list means something.

I mean, I personally think having McGwire on the list to begin with is pointless. That goes for anyone who played before they even made a point expressly ban steriods in their rules.

As for Nomar, why? I didn't realize there was any proof against him...

On WEEI's whiner line today a caller had me on the floor dying today...

"So Gagne's on the Mitchell Report... Are you sure he didn't take the antidote to steriods?"

On WEEI's whiner line today a caller had me on the floor dying today...

"So Gagne's on the Mitchell Report... Are you sure he didn't take the antidote to steriods?"

haha good one. you cant take awards away for roids because there's still hgh, and players have been taking greenies ie speed for decades. in SI caminiti said almost everyone uses them.

Mike "Never Miss a Meal" Francesa was on the radio in NY playing down Andy Pettitte's steroid use because he's a Yankee fan. These people are such hypocrites, it's unbelievable. They kill Bonds but are first to give a pass to a player on the team they like. These people are part of the reason why I hate baseball.

No one made a big deal when they found stuff in Mcgwire's locker, but now they treat him live a leper. They gave Bonds 4 MVPs and never said anything when it was obvious the guy was on something. Later, after all is said and done, they want to bury the guy. The same thing with Clemens. They kissed his ass about his work ethic and now look at him. It wasn't hard work jackasses it was roids.

And Todd Hundley was on the juice. There were rumors about it dating back to 1998.

I know what you mean about people defending guys because they are on the team they root for. It can be frustrating, but at the same time, try to look at it in a different perspective.

It is easy to trash a guy that you don't give a rats ass about. It has no effect on you. However, when you're a true fan of something, it's hard not to care about the particular players. When it turns out one of your guys is now dirty, people don't know how to rationalize it. It's like, you don't know how you're gonna feel about something until you're forced to deal with it. It's like making fun of a retarded person when you don't know anyone that's retarded. It's no skin off your back. However, if your kid was born retarded it's probably not something you're gonna do.

Is it hypocritical? Yes. Can it sometimes be infuriating? Sure. Is it understandable when you try to put it into perspective? Definitely.

And this is coming from someone who hates the yankees.

I know what you mean about people defending guys because they are on the team they root for. It can be frustrating, but at the same time, try to look at it in a different perspective.

It is easy to trash a guy that you don't give a rats ass about. It has no effect on you. However, when you're a true fan of something, it's hard not to care about the particular players. When it turns out one of your guys is now dirty, people don't know how to rationalize it. It's like, you don't know how you're gonna feel about something until you're forced to deal with it. It's like making fun of a retarded person when you don't know anyone that's retarded. It's no skin off your back. However, if your kid was born retarded it's probably not something you're gonna do.

Is it hypocritical? Yes. Can it sometimes be infuriating? Sure. Is it understandable when you try to put it into perspective? Definitely.

And this is coming from someone who hates the yankees.

yeah fuck the yankees

LOL@ Wally Joyner and Todd Hundley.

Where is Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Phil Nevin, Adrian Beltre, Bret Boone, Javy Lopez, Rafael Palmeiro and Nomar Garciaparra?



I seen Nomar on the list, the first thing I said to my Brother was, "where is McGwire, he should be on this list".

as a diehard Yankees fan I am shocked and appalled that both Clemens and Pettete are on the list. I am glad that A-Rod wasn't. with some of these guys it's a no brainer, with some it was really shocking.

im kinda at the state where i think they all do it and none if it is a surprise haha. im upset brian roberts got mentioned though. AS A DIEHARD ORIOLES FAN, FUCK YOU AXE. give us mike mussina back

as a diehard Yankees fan I am shocked and appalled that both Clemens and Pettete are on the list. I am glad that A-Rod wasn't. with some of these guys it's a no brainer, with some it was really shocking.

how can you be shocked clemens was on the list? look at the guys body, i mean c'mon!

how many 43 year old dudes you know can throw a baseball 100mph?

Randy Couture

how many 43 year old dudes you know can throw a baseball 100mph?

Not Roger Clemens.

I seen Nomar on the list, the first thing I said to my Brother was, "where is McGwire, he should be on this list".

The only list you saw Nomar on is the list that came out an hour before the report release, that was wrong. Nomar isn't on the list.

95mph*

im kinda at the state where i think they all do it and none if it is a surprise haha. im upset brian roberts got mentioned though. AS A DIEHARD ORIOLES FAN, FUCK YOU AXE. give us mike mussina back

If I were in that office I would gladly give him back to ya for the right Price. Fuck You Too Zere.

how can you be shocked clemens was on the list? look at the guys body, i mean c'mon!

he does have some flab, anyway I just thought it was pure raw talent with alot of those guys including Roger, guess I was wrong about some of them. besides I'm from a different Era where the people that played sports could actually play without Roids.

The only list you saw Nomar on is the list that came out an hour before the report release, that was wrong. Nomar isn't on the list.

I seen a list on ESPN and it had Nomar on it. sorry if ya don't believe me.

I seen a list on ESPN and it had Nomar on it. sorry if ya don't believe me.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153646

That's the list of all th players and a breakdown of what it says about them. There's no Nomar. He was on the speculative list that came out an hour before the report was released and that turned out to be false (along with a bunch of other names on that list.) I'm personally not a Nomar fan. As a matter of fact I think he's done roid and/or HGH. George Mitchell just didn't catch him at it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153646

That's the list of all th players and a breakdown of what it says about them. There's no Nomar. He was on the speculative list that came out an hour before the report was released and that turned out to be false (along with a bunch of other names on that list.) I'm personally not a Nomar fan. As a matter of fact I think he's done roid and/or HGH. George Mitchell just didn't catch him at it.

You sir, are correct.

Nomar is/was definitely on performance enhancing substances, but George Mitchell and his halfhearted report didn't catch him, that's for sure.

Roger's boy Andy Pettite came out and admitted that he did it. Whatever credibility Roger's denial of doing it MIGHT have had, just went down the drain.

Roger's boy Andy Pettite came out and admitted that he did it. Whatever credibility Roger's denial of doing it MIGHT have had, just went down the drain.

hahaha that's gold

To quote a caller on WEEI's whiner line on Friday.

"Hey Roger, why don't you go ahead and wear that Yankees hat if they let you in the hall of fame."

Everyone did roids, singling out anyone except those responsible for the culture of the game turning into what it has (MLB execs, front offices).

Everyone did roids, singling out anyone except those responsible for the culture of the game turning into what it has (MLB execs, front offices).

This seems like an incomplete thought.... go on...

This seems like an incomplete thought.... go on...

I struggle to explain this feeling of mine on a regular basis, as I have felt the same way ever since Barry Bonds has unjustly been singled out.

I just absolutely feel like the players were basically encouraged to take performance enhancing drugs by everyone who actually had power within the game.

The fans loved the longball, Bud Selig loved how immediately when he took over, the game started growing and garnering national attention again (McGwire, Sosa) in the chase, tests weren't administered, nor was anyone fighting for them to be, statistics were ridiculously bloated, amphetamines were/are in every single locker room. If you were a player and wanted everyone to be tested because you felt an obligation to take performance enhancers if your peers were, you were ridiculed for not having your MLBPA brothers backs. If they take them like all there other peers, they are tainted goods as well. The players couldn't win. GM's have long speculated on which guys were "juicers" and which weren't, yet they never stepped in to try to get testing.

What I mean is that nobody did a goddamn thing about the problem, which was obvious. I remember back in 1998 or 1999, my dad was a HUGE McGwire fan, and I couldn't stand the guy because I KNEW he was using something special. Here I was, a 12 year old who barely knew his ass from his elbow, and I could tell that there was a problem arising in the major leagues. People are telling me that experts couldn't tell? Basically, the front office executives were willing to "ride it out" while it was bringing in millions and millions of dollars and they could keep it from the public. Once the public clamored that it was a problem, MLB hopped on the bandwagon and started to act all concerned, when in reality, they hadn't shown one ounce of interest in stopping a problem that has recently arisen in just about all sports.

It all reminds me of a scenario like this (probably poorly written):
Say I was absent for a quiz so I stay after school to make it up. The teacher tells me that cheat sheets aren't allowed, but she certainly won't be in the room to watch me take the quiz and if I do cheat, there will be no surveillance or any way to catch me, and to pass the course I need to get a B+. But wait, if I do get the B+, this teacher gets a hefty financial bonus because a certain % of students passed the class.
Do you really think the teacher wouldn't want me to cheat?
I've been told I have nothing to lose by taking them, and that they will help my production... where do I sign up?