1. Is Japanese Jujitsu and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu the same?

No. Japanese Jiu Jitsu was developed by Samurai a long time ago and may have been brought over by the Chinese or Indians. Jiu Jitsu back than was just a catch phrase all for fighting which involved punches, locks, throws, and kicks.

BJJ was devloped by the Gracies after a Judoka named Maeda/Count Koma, went to Brazil and taught them for a short time. The Gracies focused more on ground grappling and locks, pretty much eliminating all strikes and creating a special point system.


2. Whats the difference between Judo and BJJ?

The techniques are the same. The gi is similar

The rules are different. In Judo you win by scoring a clean throw on to their back, a submission, a pin for a certain amount of time or acumulating fractions of points by obtaining partial throws on the shoulders, sides, etc or pins for a short time. In BJJ you win by submission or adding up the points you obtain through pins after match time has elapsed.

Judo rules have a few more limitations than BJJ at the moment but basically one focuses on throws while the other focuses on fighting from the guard since those are the most efficient ways to win in those styles respectively.

3. Which style should I do?

I don't know. I've never met you.

It depends on what your goal is and how much you are willing to sacrifice in order to obtain it.

All grappling schools vary from gym to gym. I've been to schools where the syle was the same, but one was really relaxed and cool, and the other was like boot camp. Both of them gave me what I wanted at that time.

Best thing to do is find a gym in your area and do a trial lesson. Than choose the one that makes the most sense goal-wise, distance-wise, and financially.

I fancy drunken donkey boxing, but since I couldnt find a dojo that teaches that syle, I settled with BJJ and haven't looked back.


How long to get a blackbelt?

It is different for every person...BJ Penn did it in 6 years with CONSTANT training...the average if there could even be one is 8 to 10 years.

4.What color Gi should i get?

A blue or white at teh beginning...you will be ostracized if you get a different color gi...especailly if you are the type that buys the gi and then only does one class.

Calibur

From my experience you white is safest but not surprisingly lasts the least. Blue is acceptable almost anywhere and lasts a while. A lot of noobs at my gym where black, but in the U.S. I used to think it was wierd.

My advice? Wearing an unusual color is going to draw attention to you. Make sure you have the skill to back up the attention you are gonna get.

Note: I've heard Rickson and a few others make you train in a white gi with no patch. Be aware.

5.How do I beat someone who is bigger and stronger than me?

Learn how to fight from the guard or the rubberguard...however you are pretty much fucked if the guy is bigger then you and stronger then you and better then you
Calibur
Jujit isnt magical. It depends on two things. Mass and space. If your opponent has more mass, than you are at a disadvantage. To win any kind of sub-grappling match you must be good enough at controling space to take away the mass advantage.

In other words, if your opponent is heavier and better, only a fluke/miracle can save you.

6. My first tournament is coming up. What should I do?

Focus on your cardio and takedowns...the worst thing is to get really good at BJJ and then lose becuase your opponent took you down and stayed on top of you the whole match

I like doing mini tournys in my gym with a lot of people making a ring and watching two people go at it. It puts the preassure on the fighters and mimics the adrenaline dump you will get in a tournament. The best way to get good at doing tournaments is by doing a lot of tournaments.

judogido
7. How do I do the Anaconda choke/Nog Roll/gator roll/ cool spinny thingy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuDIVSkV_9M


8. Ringworm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworm

9.what is the scoring system for bjj?
knoxpx
BJJ scoring from bjj.com.au

Rules & RegulationsPoint system:
Takedown - 2 points
Sweep or reversal - 2 points
Guard pass - 3 points
Knee-ride - 2 points/3points
Mount - 4 points
Back control - 4 points

10.What is the scoring system for Judo
Judo scoring for judoinfo.com
In Judo competition the objective is to score an ippon (one full point). Once such a score is obtained the competition ends. An ippon can be scored by one of the following methods:

Executing a skillful throwing technique which results in one contestant being thrown largely on the back with considerable force or speed.
Maintaining a pin for 25 seconds.
One contestant cannot continue and gives up.
One contestant is disqualified for violating the rules (hansoku-make).
Applying an effective armbar or an effective stranglehold (this does not usually apply for children).
Earning two waza-ari (half point). A waza-ari can be earned by: 1) a throwing technique that is not quite an ippon (for example the opponent lands only partly on the back, or with less force than required for ippon); 2) holding one contestant in a pin for 20 seconds; or 3) when the opponent violates the rules (shido) three times.
If the time runs out with neither contestant scoring an ippon, then the referee will award the win to the contestant who has the next highest score. For example a contestant with one yuko would win against an opponent who scored 4 kokas.

11. What is the scoring system/rules for sport sambo (taken from )rus-sambo.com

WINNING THE SPORT SAMBO MATCH:

A match can be won in one of several ways:

1. Total Victory (a "perfect throw" or submission hold) which ends match immediately;
2. Technical Superiority (12 point difference in score), which ends match immediately;
3. Point difference at end of match duration. If there has been no Total Victory or Technical Superiority, the sportsman with the most points at the end of the match wins - no minimum point score required. Tie matches are decided by a one minute overtime period, or if there is no winner at the end of overtime, by majority decision of the officials.

ILLEGAL HOLDS IN SPORT SAMBO:

Holds not permitted in Sambo include:

1. bending arms behind back (hammerlock or chicken wing);
2. submission on shoulder, wrist, neck, fingers or toes;
3. gripping the mat or the opponent below the belt or inside the sleeve;
4. pressure to the face;
5. twisting or squeezing the opponent's head;
6. punching or slapping;
7. driving the opponent's head into the mat;
8. standing or throwing submission holds;
9. gouging;
10. strangling or choking holds.

SCORING IN SPORT SAMBO:

1. Hold Down: (Immobilization or Predicament) - Similar to a judo hold down or a long wrestling near fall. One sportsman must hold the back of the other sportsman toward the mat in a danger position (less than 90 degrees), with chest, side or back in unbroken contact with the chest of the opponent to score. A hold down is "broken" when contact between the athletes is broken when space is created between them, or the defending athlete turns over to the stomach or the side with an angle greater than 90 degrees. A Hold down may only be scored once in a match and will earn either 2 points for a ten second hold down or 4 points for a twenty second hold down. Once a hold down is scored, a sportsman cannot attempt another.

2. Submission Hold: A pressure hold (arm or leg lock) applied ot the arm or leg of the opponent which makes the opponent surrender or submit by calling out or by tapping the mat at least twice. Submission holds cannot be applied in standing position. A submission hold ends the match.

3. Throw: A throw is scored anytime one sportsman takes another to the mat in a single, continuous and uninterrupted action. A Sambo throw is more than a simple wrestling takedown, however. Like a judo or Greco-Roman throw, it must start with both sportsmen on their feet, one sportsmen must unbalance the other and take the opponent directly to the mat with one action without stopping. A throw must knock the defender off their feet either by lifting or tripping them, not merely dragging them down. A throw is scored based on two factors: How the thrown athlete lands and whether the thrower remains standing (scoring twice as many points if remaining standing). A Perfect Throw results in Total Victory and stops the match when a sportsman throws the other to his back while remaining standing. Other throws will score 4 points, 2 points, or 1 point, depending on the impact point of the thrown athlete.

What level am I

Imagine you had a guy, a medicine man, working in the fields for years. Fixing people not unlike a doctor. If he went to "the civilized world" would he immediately be given a medical degree even if he new more about first aid than those who had been out of med school a year? Probably not. If he went to school and studied, he might learn quicker, because of his experience, but he might also have to unlearn bad habits.

The point of the story? Grapplings the same. Each grappling art has it's philosophy and even if you are a good grappler, it doesnt mean you are automatically "such and such" belt at BJJ. Typically, to get a ranking in a grappling art, you have to attend that school and learn their philosophies before you can say that you are at a particular level. (My opinion. Feel free to respond)

14.How do I get out of Sidemount/Sidecontrol

A video is worth a billion words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0okJVgqE99A

Zenkou


This is possibly the most common question asked by new grapplers. The first thing to understand is that it is very hard to escape side control, and even experienced grapplers may have difficulty escaping against a skilled opponent. You are not likely to escape from an opponent who has more skill than you and/or is physically superior to you. The best way to escape is not to get caught in side control in the first place --- and that means developing a strong guard, which will take considerable time.

If your guard is passed, however, you need to do the following:

1 Get on your side, facing your opponent. You do not want to be flat on your back.
2 You must win the grip battle, and position your arms correctly. Best is if you can obtain an underhook with your far arm, and using your near hand as a "paw" to keep his other arm from hooking under your head or extending your near arm. Keep your elbows tight on your chest, acting as a barrier between you opponent and yourself.
3 Do NOT allow your opponent to do one of three things: (a) underhook your far arm; (b) hook an arm under your head; (c) pull/push up on your near arm so that your near elbow is no longer serving as a barrier between your body and your opponent's body. If your opponent does any of these, you are basically screwed. If you are serious about escaping side control, you cannot let any of these happen, or your escapes are not likely to work.
4 If you cannot get the underhook, then you will want to keep both of your arms folded on your chest, but placing the last third of your forearm, including the elbow, in (a) the armpit and (b) the hip of your opponent, so that both of your opponents arms are on the other side of your body, and your elbows are pressed up against his flank by your head. This is sometimes called "pin prevention posture." In order to get your far arm past your opponent's arms and under his armpit, try pushing on his elbow, as though you were trying to push him over you.

These first steps are CRUCIAL, and often not taught to beginners. If you lose the battle for positioning at the start, you are going to fail in your escape attempts.

5 Okay --- so your arms are in position. You are ready to escape. The first thing you must do is MAKE SPACE FOR YOUR HIPS. You do this by explosively bridging into your opponent.
6 Now SHRIMP your hips as far away as possible, rotating on your shoulder, using your arms to keep your opponent in place while your hips drive away. Repeat if necessary.
7 At this point you will have your hands against your opponent, be on your side, and your hips will be far away. You have two choices here: Go to your knees or pull your near knee across his stomach, straighten out, and reestablish your guard. Work between them. If you insist on just doing one, you will not likely get it. Take what you can get.

That's it. Now, there are two additional "sweep" escapes that you can add after you master the basic shrimp escape dynamic --- sweeping your opponent over you (block his arm, grab a leg, and send him right over you), or driving into your opponent and flipping him over ("swim" your far arm into him as you switch base and drive). Both of these escapes require good timing, and for your opponent to be unbalanced. Even more important, both of these escapes require that your opponent be NEARLY PARALLEL to you, rather than perpendicular (as with normal side control). try to get your legs close to his legs, and distance your head/upper body, so that you are almost side by side. The "sweep" escapes will then become far easier. Usually these sweep escapes are good to do while your opponent is preoccupied with attacking (such as an Americana) or is busy trying to defeat a shrimping escape.

15 Should I do gi or no-gi?

Depends on the person and what you want to accomplish through Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu...The majority is split between three groups...the Gi group the No Gi group and the i'll do both group...

most people that want to or actively do compete in MMA will do no-gi jiu-jitsu...They figure that the importance of the gi is gone because there is no gi in their chosen sport of MMA...While these people are usually less technical then people that practice in the gi they are usually able to scramble better and play at a higher pace...Most if not all actual MMA schools will practice no-gi jiu-jitsu.

People that simply want to practice BJJ without any asperations to compete in MMA usually choose the Gi route...95 percent of the schools that teach strictly BJJ are teaching it wtih the Gi on...with the Gi th..Gi chokes and Lapel Chokes come into the equation with the Gi on...as do a lot of Judo throws...There are fairly less scrambles in a gi jiu-Jitsu match...you will see the two people circle each other slowly fighting to get a hold of the other persons collar.

There are many people that participate in No-gi competitions and train in No-Gi who truly believe that years of working wtih the Gi is what helped them...almost all old school BJJ instructors will force their students to wear the gi first.

Both have their pros and cons...no-gi teaches you to be quicker with your action and to think quicker in the scrambles...the Gi teaches you technique and control and the ability to slow yourself down and actually think about what your goign to do and what your opponent is going to do instead of just reacting...

However, if you become too used to the gi then you will become overdependent on having the gi grips and being able to grasp your opponent in that way and you won't be able to control him if he takes off his jacket...

No-gi jiu-jitsu can teach you to be sloppy and just fly at your opponent...if you ever watch no-gi jiu-jitsu matches you will see that the fast pace destroys technique and limits the effectiveness of the jiu-jitsu...No-Gi is better for self defense in most cases because you cannot collar choke someone that is waering a tshirt

In conclusion, the choice to put on the gi or not is up to you.
16. What books can get me started

17. What is the best instructional

18. Problems with the Triangle choke

Pay attention
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...triangle+choke

hmm... pretty good

i need a stronger guard. i have pretty much no guard

thigh master

no not a tighter guard. just a better guard

Gi jiu jitsu pwns all

No gi is much better.

no gi is more usefull in real life. plus no gi is slower

good job

nogi > all

Im gonna capitalize faq so it doesent look so much like fag

nice. looks pretty sick

Add this stuff to the main thing

Grappling / Groundfighting FAQ

Introduction and background information

The neccesity of learning to grapple and fight on the ground has been debated countless times on internet martial arts forums such as bullshido.net.

Arguements have been brought forth and systematically taken apart over and over again. Evidence has been shown for the neccesity of learning to fight on the ground if one wishes to be a well rounded fighter, prepared for all situations.

This FAQ was created for the purpose of disspelling common misconceptions about what grappling and groundfighting are and are not.

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Doesn't the presence of broken glass, needles, lava, sharks, etc. on the ground make groundfighting a bad idea even if you're good at it?

Striking advocates are quick to point out that you would never want to roll around on the ground where you would get scraped up by the asphalt or broken glass. This is indeed the truth and it is why a person should train in groundfighting.

A groundfighter is going to control the takedown and be on TOP thus using the harsh environment against his attacker. Even if our groundfighter is in a disadvantageous position, he will quickly improve position, whereas the helpless striker would just flail about and remove the skin from his own back.

A fight is an unpredictable event and going to the ground is a possibility. You may not have the luxury of keeping the fight standing especially if you do not train in proper takedown defenses. You may also trip, or slip on something, or...the list goes on and on.

Learning groundfighting will give you the ability to continue to defend yourself as well as teach you proper, safe ways to stand back up.

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But couldn't I just gouge the grappler's eyes, or bite him?

The non-grappler will claim to resort to such infallible techniques as eyegouging, biting and / or genital crushing techniques. The reasons why this is bullshido are as follows:

1. How often do these strikers actually train these movements? The answer is usually not very often. Thus, they are a somewhat risky method of countering a grappler, who has practiced the movements they will be using many times before on resisting opponents.

2. Eyegouging, biting and genital mandhandling are of course very uncomfortable for those on the recieving end, but they are not instant fight-enders. Resorting to these techniques suggests a 'last chance' situation, whereby the grappler has you under their control and you are trying a last ditch attempt to escape or injure the grappler. If you do not either gouge the eye right out of the socket and put your thumb in their brain, crush their nuts even through various layers of clothing, or bite a rather large chunk from their body, they will continue to choke you to unconsciousness or break / disable a joint or limb.

3. What you can do to them, they can do to you. In other words. if a grappler can beat you under a specific ruleset, chances are that when those rules are lifted, they can beat you even worse. There is no unwritten law in life that states only kung fu weenies can poke someone in the eye or squeeze some testicles.

Which brings us to the last point,

4. Whatever move you claim to be able to pull out of the bag during 'anti-grappling', chances are a grappler can not only do the same move to you, but can use their skill and experience of fighting in that range to put themselves in a much better position than you to apply the move, and also have the knowledge and experience to defend against it far better than a non-grappler.
For instance, from under mount, trying to gouge your opponent's eyes will give your opponent a great opportunity to armbar you. Whereas the person on top mount can gouge with impunity.

5: So far these tactics have never worked on a skilled grappler. For instance, in the john marsh vs. kung fu guy video on bullshido.net, the kung fu guy trys to gouge Marsh's eyes from underneath side control. Marsh uses the raised arm as an opportunity to apply a keylock and snaps the kung fu guy's shoulder.

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But don't grapplers have to reach me first?

Yes they do. However, the deceptive, quick, and expolosive nature of the shot (takedown) makes this relatively easy allowing you only one solid attack with which you must KO your opponent to avoid grappling. Should you fail, you'll likely end up on the ground or at least entangled with your opponent.
Submissions are just for sport. In real life no one taps out so how can you use grappling in a fight?

Submissions are generally not pain based. Many submissions will seriously injure, cripple, or even kill the opponent if actually finished. Chokes and strangles will render them first unconscious and then dead. This is the reason why people tap out.

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Couldn't I just hit sidestep the shot?

Theorists believe that the shoot is executed from a great distance like a football tackle. This is why most believe that a simple side step, palm strike to the ear, or knee to the face will take down any grappler trying to shoot because they can see it coming. Effective shoots are used from close range and are typically set up via punch combinations or by causing the opponent to break their balance prior to shooting.

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Why don't you roll on concrete instead of a mat?

For safety reasons. The mat protects the person who is being taken down (IE the person who's been outwrestled). It is NOT because grappling is innefective on concrete. Quite the opposite, in fact.

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Where can I see concrete evidence of the unworkability of "anti-grappling" techniques and the neccesity of learning grappling and groundfighting

On the internet, the download sections of Bullshido.net and Subfighter.net have many clips of grappler vs. striker fights.

The Ultimate Fighting championships one through five brought fighters from many different styles, grappling and striking, together in no rules matches. Vale Tudo matches continue in Brazil and sometimes in the USA and Japan.

The gracie jiujitsu in action videotapes show the famous gracie brothers fighting challenge matches against many other styles.

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What about multiple opponents?

A: There is no evidence that striking is any safer than grappling when fighting multiple opponents. Fighting several attackers is a losing proposition for anyone, grappler or striker. It's not impossible but it is very unlikely. People who think they can fight multiple people without getting seriously hurt tend to have watched a few too many kung fu movies.

The best defense in this situation is to run away.

B: The second best defense is to have a weapon (or three).

Grappling and ground-fighting skills are essential in a
multiple opponent scenario with weapons involved. Put
simply put you need grappling/groundfighting skills to
utilize a weapon effectively when escape is not an option.

A weapon is not a magic wand. It often requires time or
multiple successful attacks to remove an attacker from the
fight. In the meantime dog-pack tactics are likely to be
employed against you. A multiple opponent scenario where
escape and evasion is not possible is by definition “close quarters”.
To escape from a clinch, takedown, tackle, or pin requires
personal understanding of how it is executed. It may take
minutes for an attacker who has been stabbed to cease all
resistance, and a bludgeoned opponent may collapse on you or
pass out with a death grip on parts of your anatomy.

No part of a multiple opponent scenario is pleasant to
contemplate.. but whether you can run or must fight, the
grappling and groundfighting skill-sets are essential if you
want to live through a bad situation. Hopefully you won’t have
to use them, but they are critical insurance when things go
pear-shaped.

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"I wouldn't want to grapple/wrestle with a bigger opponent, I'd rather strike."

In the striking range, there is a higher percentage of chance factors that can result in the inferior striker getting in a shot that KO's the other person. This is especially true if you are fighting a big person. A bigger person with little or no training can still throw powerful punches. A good grappler can negate this by taking the bigger person to the ground and minimizing the distance the bigger opponent has to build momentum in striking. Yes, size still matters on the ground, but not as much as standing up. It's more likely that your technical skills on the ground will protect you against a larger opponent than standing up.

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Grappling styles such as Folkstyle, Freestyle and Greco-Roman Wrestling are just sports. How is knowing one of those styles going to help in a real fight?

Yes, the various wrestling styles are sports but consider these following points.

1. Wrestlers perform their techniques between 80% to 100% full speed during every training session. That means that they have drilled their techniques countless thousands of times under real conditions against opponents who are actively training and defending at the same speed they are. These techniques are ingrained into their muscle memory, as are all the possible variations that can arise when changes are introduced.

2. Wrestling practice and competition is always full contact. Wrestlers are used to working in a full contact environment where pain is part of the game. This means they are used to getting slammed, bumped, bruised, twisted and cross-faced etc. Wrestlers have developed the mental and physical toughness required to compete in a very physically demanding sport and this translates well to a real fighting situation.

3. Active participants in any style of wrestling are going to be in phenomenal shape. Wrestlers generally spend a decent portion of their training session getting into shape with a combination of calisthenics (pushups, pull-ups, sit-ups and dips), weights and aerobic/anaerobic exercises (long distance running, wind sprints and bleachers/stairs). In addition to these they spend a lot of time performing anaerobic activities in of all things… wrestling. This translates to roughly 2-3 hours a day at least 4-5 days a week of non-stop physical fitness.

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But doesn't my traditional system already have groundfighting?

Many traditional systems do have an assortment of techniques which are said to counter basic attacks of groundfighting. However, before even discussing if these techniques work, one must first look at how these techniques are trained. Many of these techniques never get trained in an alive manner, so the student will not know how to apply them in an actual grappling situation. Conversely, the student training in aliveness will have practiced their techniques much more often, and against opponents who have also practiced countering them. In comparison, the student training groundfighting techniques without practice is no better equipped than someone with no "training."

Also, because these techniques never get practiced in an alive manner, counters to things like takedowns and pins can get considerably more surreal and less based in effectiveness, simply because the instructor or student may not understand grappling. Grappling doesn't always follow normal human instinct, and improper training could result in bad techniques that make it even easier for the poorly trained student to be beaten by an experienced grappler. Examples of this include counters to takedowns that involve lifting one of you legs up, which just makes it easier for you to be taken down, or attempting to eye-gouge while mounted which simply opens you up to a number of armbars.

Finally, remember that all systems have different focuses, and therefore different strengths and weaknesses. Just because your Shotokan class has some "grappling" in the syllabus doesn't mean that you're going to get a complete understanding of grappling from them. BJJ classes will briefly touch on some aspects of striking, but that doesn't mean you'll be a competent striker. To understand different ranges of combat, you actually have to train in them, fully, and from someone with a proper understanding of them. BJJ striking isn't going to teach in depth strategies of footwork, defense, and striking power that a good stand-up class wil. The same strategy and understanding of grappling needs to be built by actually training grappling, otherwise you will have no idea what you're doing in this essential range of combat.

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But in my school/system/class/warrior clan, we train so that we are never taken down. Why should we learn grappling?

Professional Boxers train to never get knocked out, but it still happens. Players of almost ANY sport train to not let their opponent win, but it still happens. There are no gaurantees in fighting, and as much time as you spend training to never be taken down, there are people training to take you down. It's important to know how to adapt to all situations, good and bad, and that includes grappling.

Also, there is ample evidence, video and otherwise, of people claiming they cannot be taken down, only to be taken down and submitted minutes later.

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What about anti-grappling?

In addition to the refutations above, the whole idea of "Anti-grappling" is absurd. If I were to claim to be practicing "anti-striking" every time I shot a double leg takedown, you'd laugh, wouldn't you? "Anti-grappling" is just as ridiculous an idea.

An entire range of fighting cannot be dismissed with just a few techniques.
I saw some MMA matches where guys were knocked out. Doesn't this mean grappling doesn't work?

Crosstraining in both grappling and striking is neccesary to be succesful in MMA. However, if you don't grapple at all, your chances of success are slim to none. Even fighters who prefer to strike have to train grappling.

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Ok, you convinced me. But it looks scary. I don't wanna get my arm broken by a three hundred pound ex-wrestler!

It isn't. The tap-out system allows for a maximum of safety, much more than sparring in striking arts.

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It looks gay...

What are you, eight?

How do the belts in BJJ work? How do you progress from one level to another, and how does the progression differ from say JJJ?

no gi is more usefull in real life. plus no gi is slower

Real Life meaning like being in a street fight? I would have to disagree because blue jeans easily represent gi bottoms and a shirt and jacket easily represent a gi top, meaning you still have all gi grips and gi chokes =) But yeah, i personally like nogi so, nogi ftw

training in a gi is essential to be successful in grappling, at least to start with but the best usually do both

let see the top 3 p4p grapplers in the world are marcelo, jacare, and roger gracie right?

well all three orginally started out with a gi and currently train both

also who ever said that no gi is slower is very worng, you can't scramble out of positions with a gi, if you advance a position, or escape a submission then it because you have better technique.... GI is better because it slows everything down and is great to work on technique, once you learn to do things with a gi moving to no gi is easy

and as for the real life aspect, it doesn't matter what you do. seriously if i get in a bar fight with a guy and i've trained for more than 6 months it doesn't matter if i know gi or no gi, i will whip dat ass. so it does not matter unless you are in a street fight with another grappler and even then unless you guys are naked i can use his jeans to help me grab and move him, while he won't be used to it at all

as for MMA well, the top submission artist are mostly gi guys

the NOGs
aoki
ribero
GSP
filho
shogun

and yeah there are great sub fighter like monson, barnett, and marquart who are only no gi but the majority of the top sub fighters start with a gi and train in both

I agree with a gi is more like the streets unless you are on a brazilian beach where you will probably be topless.

I agree with a gi is more like the streets unless you are on a brazilian beach where you will probably be topless.

and oiled

I've used gi chokes in street fights.

training in a gi is essential to be successful in grappling, at least to start with but the best usually do both

let see the top 3 p4p grapplers in the world are marcelo, jacare, and roger gracie right?

well all three orginally started out with a gi and currently train both

This seems to me to be irrelevant. Gi grappling has been around for decades longer than no-gi, which is really less than 10 years old in a serious format.

Gi grappling still has all the greatest teachers, all the greatest camps, and has firmly developed its discipline and techniques. There is not a champion alive today who grew up on no-gi.

also who ever said that no gi is slower is very worng, you can't scramble out of positions with a gi, if you advance a position, or escape a submission then it because you have better technique.... GI is better because it slows everything down and is great to work on technique, once you learn to do things with a gi moving to no gi is easy

While I agree that no-gi is faster paced, I don't see slowness as a good thing. Although gi might be a little cleaner technique-wise, you rely on the slowness and cannot compete when the pace is so fast you cannot think. The movements and counters need to be instinctual, not tactical. This is not chess, this is a sport.

and as for the real life aspect, it doesn't matter what you do. seriously if i get in a bar fight with a guy and i've trained for more than 6 months it doesn't matter if i know gi or no gi, i will whip dat ass. so it does not matter unless you are in a street fight with another grappler and even then unless you guys are naked i can use his jeans to help me grab and move him, while he won't be used to it at all

I am inclined to agree that it doesn't really matter as in the real world you are usually wearing clothes that can act as an improvised go, but I think no-gi, should act as a foundation, and then gi techniques should build from it. Not the other way around. It is sort of like training for general MMA principles like the sprawl, jab, double leg, and armbar, before you start train how to use the cage or the ring to your advantage.

as for MMA well, the top submission artist are mostly gi guys

the NOGs
aoki
ribero
GSP
filho
shogun

Again, this is because no-gi is still in its infancy, not because gi is superior.

and yeah there are great sub fighter like monson, barnett, and marquart who are only no gi but the majority of the top sub fighters start with a gi and train in both

The majority did, because the majority of youth programs were gi.

Ultimately, I believe Eddie Bravo's claim is true--gi grappling is flawed because ultimately gi's RELY ON A GI TO GRIP. In street fights this tends to be okay, except when it is a one on one duke out, where people take their shirts off. But in MMA, there is no gi to grab, and ultimately a traditional BJJer just closes guard and sits there tight trying to avoid punches, because they lose too much control when they release their bear hug and closed guard. No gi teaches alternative controls besides the gi and how to shift those controls to open up movement once again.

holy shit man do you have anyhting better to do than argue me on the internet


lol at "no gi" being so new, everytime i roll with guys who focus on no gi more and they've been training for about the same amount of time i have a lot of times even more i pwn them

there are pleanty of dudes who only train no-gi, and they are not generally as good as the gi guys i train with

oh and lol at the "this is a sport not checkers" bullshit if your technique sucks you suck, when the gi slows things down you get muscle memmory, once no gi comes in you can adjust to the speed

does marcelo garcia ever look overwhelmed when the gi is off? does he seem to be out of his element because he loses his gi grips?

how hard is it to go from sleeve control to wrist? not that fucking hard, or collar control to neck? not that hard either.

unless you're a retard gi translates easily into no-gi

BTW if you pull that po-mo card on this i say fuck it cause foucault never grappled and never understood that gi is just plain better than no gi

holy shit man do you have anyhting better to do than argue me on the internet

I argue with everyone. You're not special d00d.

lol at "no gi" being so new, everytime i roll with guys who focus on no gi more and they've been training for about the same amount of time i have a lot of times even more i pwn them

there are pleanty of dudes who only train no-gi, and they are not generally as good as the gi guys i train with

It's not the length of time gi vs. no gi have been trained, it is the quality of training that exists. Currently all of the best grapplers and all of the best schools are gi schools. 10th Planet is getting up there, but for the most part, the no-gi community is still dwarfed in terms of size and most importantly, history. The gi community has a history behind it. It has refined its techniques, and mastered its movements. It's like comparing boxing to MMA today. In terms of technical precision, boxing FAR outstrips MMA. This is simply because everyone knows how to train boxing--there is a culture and training history behind it that people draw from.

That's why successful MMA competitors who are master boxing and then make a transition are simply better athletes than people have been training equally long in all of MMA. There is a training history. The drills, conditioning, and periodization have all been perfected in boxing, whereas the sport of MMA (and no gi) is still young.

oh and lol at the "this is a sport not checkers" bullshit if your technique sucks you suck, when the gi slows things down you get muscle memmory, once no gi comes in you can adjust to the speed

That's what drilling is for, not live grappling.

does marcelo garcia ever look overwhelmed when the gi is off? does he seem to be out of his element because he loses his gi grips?

Marcelo Garcia is a) and extremely talented natural athlete, b) a very creative individual that can adapt quickly, and c) has trained no-gi for an absurdly long time.

how hard is it to go from sleeve control to wrist? not that fucking hard, or collar control to neck? not that hard either.

Are you fucking kidding me? The grip is completely different. There are MUCH better handholds with a gi. How the fuck do you control the head like you control it with a collar? To control the head by pulling (as you do with gi) you make a hook and cup the side of the neck. How is that at all similar? There is no belt in no-gi either to grab.

unless you're a retard gi translates easily into no-gi

Apparently Eddie Bravo and the Machados are retards.

BTW if you pull that po-mo card on this i say fuck it cause foucault never grappled and never understood that gi is just plain better than no gi

You didn't get butt hurt in our last discussion did you?

I argue with everyone. You're not special d00d.



It's not the length of time gi vs. no gi have been trained, it is the quality of training that exists. Currently all of the best grapplers and all of the best schools are gi schools. 10th Planet is getting up there, but for the most part, the no-gi community is still dwarfed in terms of size and most importantly, history. The gi community has a history behind it. It has refined its techniques, and mastered its movements. It's like comparing boxing to MMA today. In terms of technical precision, boxing FAR outstrips MMA. This is simply because everyone knows how to train boxing--there is a culture and training history behind it that people draw from.

That's why successful MMA competitors who are master boxing and then make a transition are simply better athletes than people have been training equally long in all of MMA. There is a training history. The drills, conditioning, and periodization have all been perfected in boxing, whereas the sport of MMA (and no gi) is still young.



That's what drilling is for, not live grappling.



Marcelo Garcia is a) and extremely talented natural athlete, b) a very creative individual that can adapt quickly, and c) has trained no-gi for an absurdly long time.



Are you fucking kidding me? The grip is completely different. There are MUCH better handholds with a gi. How the fuck do you control the head like you control it with a collar? To control the head by pulling (as you do with gi) you make a hook and cup the side of the neck. How is that at all similar? There is no belt in no-gi either to grab.



Apparently Eddie Bravo and the Machados are retards.



You didn't get butt hurt in our last discussion did you?

i trained with a bunch of people, i am friends with a bunch of guys at 10th planet, and i beat most of eddie's blue belts and some his purple belts in no gi, and those guys have been training under a great teacher for about the same time as i have or longer.

eddie and the machados did the transition to no gi easily, everyone in my gym who starts out with the gi on transitions esily to no gi. there are people who are better at no-gi than at gi and vice versa but the fundamentals of jiu jitsu are the same in both.

obviously you don't train both cause head control and wrist control is not that hard compared to the gi. you swear guys don't know how to rip your grips.

live sparring is just as important in developing technique as is drilling, drilling teaches you the movement and live sparring teaches how and when and where to use it.

marcelo, roger, jacare, bj penn, gsp, bill cooper, robert drysdale, mario reis, javi vazquez, eddie bravo, the machados, royler gracie all started with a gi, all developed their technique with a gi and all transition well into no-gi, if you want to argue that it is only because they had better teachers or had more history or cause the best schools have both then why aren't paulson's guys or bravo's guys or barrnett's guys pwning at every competition?

why is it that my friend joe gutierrez is one of the top sub wrestling grapplers in the country yet he took his first few no gi tournaments with out every training a single day in no-gi?

cause it is not that hard to transition from gi to no-gi,
(no-gi to gi on the other hand is tough)

so you are either saying that eddie is not as good of a teacher as other schools or that his instructin is not as good?

i would argue that perhaps he should use the gi more and touch up his student's techniques like how he started out with the gi and developed his technique

oh and i never trained in no gi before i took the fight lab invitational tournament where team quest showed up and i beat two of their better guys

in no gi of course

There used to be a guy at our Gym who was decent at BJJ. He left for a year to train exclusively no-gi at an exclusively no-gi gym. When he came back, he was getting crushed by everyone. He was pretty decent too before he left. I'm with narb here, any mastery of submission grappling has to involve BJJ. You can be very proficient at no-gi, and get crushed in gi.

You can be very proficient at no-gi, and get crushed in gi.

I didn't say that no-gi was a better crossover, I said that no-gi was more specific to no-gi grappling and MMA. I don't dispute that training no-gi will not be as effective as training gi, once you don the gi.

I'll tell you what--I'll inquire with other opinions on the matter. Right now all I have for applicable evidence is narb saying that he went and beat up a bunch of Team Quest's better guy.

You know you might just be that good narb.

There used to be a guy at our Gym who was decent at BJJ. He left for a year to train exclusively no-gi at an exclusively no-gi gym. When he came back, he was getting crushed by everyone. He was pretty decent too before he left. I'm with narb here, any mastery of submission grappling has to involve BJJ. You can be very proficient at no-gi, and get crushed in gi.

all i am saying is that the gi hones your technique like nothing else, training in gi benefits no-gi grappling. gi helps no gi a lot, and no-gi doesn't really do anything for gi. the best in no gi train both, eddie bravo has the right to believe what he wants but he's been proven wrong time and time again. lol, leo vierra hardly trains in no gi, at his academy he trains like 2 times a week with a gi with marcel, and look what he did to eddie at adcc

I think training in the gi helps me a lot because I need to focus on my technique a lot more. I can't just slip out because I'm sweaty so I do master my escapes using the gi and then when I train no gi I can use the technique and the advantage of slipping out because there's no grips.

To make many techniques work I think you need to focus on the gi and then use it in no gi as it helps teach correct form.

I didn't say that no-gi was a better crossover, I said that no-gi was more specific to no-gi grappling and MMA. I don't dispute that training no-gi will not be as effective as training gi, once you don the gi.

I'll tell you what--I'll inquire with other opinions on the matter. Right now all I have for applicable evidence is narb saying that he went and beat up a bunch of Team Quest's better guy.

You know you might just be that good narb.

i think i'm that good cause of the gi

so
me>team quest dudes
javi>eddie bravo
leo vera>eddie bravo
ricardo almedia>josh barnett
joe gutirrez>most people in this country including many of eddie bravo's team and team takedown
marcelo garcia> diego sanchez9diego at the time was stricktly no gi under jackson)
don ortega>the world including international submission wrestlers who don't train with a gi

I think training in the gi helps me a lot because I need to focus on my technique a lot more. I can't just slip out because I'm sweaty so I do master my escapes using the gi and then when I train no gi I can use the technique and the advantage of slipping out because there's no grips.

To make many techniques work I think you need to focus on the gi and then use it in no gi as it helps teach correct form.

exactly training both is essential but people who disregard the gi completely are limiting themselves in a way

no gi is the best.

so
me>team quest dudes





(LOL) okay.

(LOL) okay.

not all of team quest dip shit just the ones that showed up to the fight lab tourney in temecula

not all of team quest dip shit just the ones that showed up to the fight lab tourney in temecula



were they actual fighters or just gym members? Why so defensive you faggot?

were they actual fighters or just gym members? Why so defensive you faggot?

both of them were on the fight team, they both had "team quest fight team" rash guards i asked the guy i beat in the finals about it and he said he's had 3 pro mma fights, the other guy i don't know

you seem upset (LOL)

both of them were on the fight team, they both had "team quest fight team" rash guards i asked the guy i beat in the finals about it and he said he's had 3 pro mma fights, the other guy i don't know

you seem upset (LOL)



Just a question i had no idea yer little vagina was going to bleed.

Just a question i had no idea yer little vagina was going to bleed.

(LOL)

(LOL)



*hugs narb

awwz



*hugs back*

*dances

*freaks tba*