is aikido a grappling system?

yes... but its a series of counters to attacks with punches and kicks. not a traditional grappling style like judo or wrestling. its more of a self defensive kind of thing... dont know how effect it is tho in a real life situation. the concept is to use your opponents momentum against him to counter punches and other attacks.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/39ntb1LABss"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/39ntb1LABss" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

you got to be shitting me..

that dude will fuck you up.


so will jcmc

this post contained false information that was edited

I know some fellas that do aikido, it's fairly impressive close up. They also train in pressure point/weak point attacks for real self defense.

I wouldnt mind learning some of this stuff for fun part time.

you got to be shitting me.

Aikido has great footwork.

Aikido is a derivative from classical jujutsu. Japanese jujutsu was developed by samurai for use during war, meaning it involved disarming, throws, joint locks, chokes, strikes, etc. and went on to be adapted to modern day self-defense, although many of the wrist locks unique to jujutsu are still used by military and police today.

Aikido does not utilize strikes offensively, and is not "grappling" in the way you would think of it. It is taught as a series of counters to various attacks, and is very non-violent and non-strength based. When an opponent approaches you with an attack, the objective is to "recieve" the attack and redirect the energy away from you, offbalancing your opponent. It is not effective in mma because people seldome charge or really attempt to take someone's head off like they may on the street. For the same reason, it is not effective in grappling competitions.

But nonetheless, it is grappling, and does have its uses. These uses will just not come to play in a methodical competition. I imagine that the footwork or sense of balance and feel developed through Aikido could be effective in competition, but it does not teach a standup game or ground game, only how to subdue wild attackers and avoid being hit.

Aikdo is awesome if you learn some good wrist locks you can easily use those for better positioning in randori.

Aikdo is awesome if you learn some good wrist locks you can easily use those for better positioning in randori.

I are teh master of wristlock. Seriously though, they are awesome.
Traditional JJ ftw.

indeed

you got to be shitting me.

you got to be shitting me.

I don't like you but I agree with you. You gotta be shitting me.

you got to be shitting me.

Yup. Gotta agree.

Aikido or most any "traditional" martial art for that matter is worthless. Some training is better than no training, cause at least you'll have developed some sense of balance and the "idea" of technique. Other than that, worthless.

My measure of any system's worth: Can you enter the ring/cage with it and stand a snowball's chance in hell? Aikido = no.

The ring/cage is the closest approximation to a "real" fight you can find. If you can't handle a trained opponent in a controlled environment, you'll be doubly fucked on the street.

i dont know how you can say its bullshit ,its differnt than mma you cant manipulate fingers and wrists in mma,thats what aikido is , its effective in what it is a self defense for the street

because in a real fight guy's leave the fingers and wrist neatly spaced and extended for the hell of it

Sorry Akido is bs..

Why go through the trouble of grabbing someone finger, or wrist, whe you can just punch, or learn JJ and gets some real battle tested moves that have been proven in an actual adrenalized fight..

people are trying to justify wasted money they spent on akido,tkd and other queer shit

Actually self-defense style martial arts are very effective for self-defense. But a comp style match will never occur on the street. Unless 2 people agree to fight, you will never see jabs or any passive attacks cause all you would have to do is keep backing up and avoid the fight.

I HAVE subdued people with wristlocks and through redirecting their forward motion because the kind of attack you recieve is nothing like the attack recieved in mma. Police subdue guys with wristlocks all the time and their knowledge of them are extremely basic. Are they not effective? Aikido = way of harmony, and most mma fans would not agree with it because
a. it is not good in comps.
b. they are aggressive and testosterone driven so don't understand why "fighting" is bad. I would never teach a martial art to someone who said "I want to learn to fight."

Sorry Akido is bs..

Why go through the trouble of grabbing someone finger, or wrist, whe you can just punch, or learn JJ and gets some real battle tested moves that have been proven in an actual adrenalized fight..

Because grabbing someone's wrist is a defensive menuever. It's as simple as that. It does not instigate any sort of aggression. If you can avoid a fight, then you are in the wrong if you do not.

Also, grabbing someones wrist is the superior means to avoid weapons or disarm people. Boxing would not work if someone attacked you with a knife, and bjj would not work against 2 people.

Whether or not you agree with the techniques in aikido, it is a fact that the concept, footwork, and approach that it teaches are superior within a modern society.

you can use wrist locks/ throws in mma .... they just usually dont work ... except for royce vs akebono lol

Because grabbing someone's wrist is a defensive menuever. It's as simple as that. It does not instigate any sort of aggression. If you can avoid a fight, then you are in the wrong if you do not.

Also, grabbing someones wrist is the superior means to avoid weapons or disarm people. Boxing would not work if someone attacked you with a knife, and bjj would not work against 2 people.

Whether or not you agree with the techniques in aikido, it is a fact that the concept, footwork, and approach that it teaches are superior within a modern society.


Why would you fight someone with a knife?
WHy would you fight with 2 people?
Better yet, Why would you fight on the street??

YOu can avoid street fights, but when the time comes of someone attacking me, I don't think of his wrists, and fingers and joint manipulation.. etc.
I think of punching him in the face, and getting control on the ground...
You need to stop watching steven seagal movies.

In order to grab a wristlock, you have to grapple there hand.. and if you are facing another grappler, you are pretty much fucked, you will get taked down, mounted, and sooner or later you will let go..

I'm not disrespecting the art or anything.

I'm not disrespecting the art or anything.

i am it's fucking stupid and a waste of money.

i am it's fucking stupid and a waste of money.

Entirely. What the hell does dressing up in pants that you can fit two tv sets inside and doing choreographed fairy-fighting have to do with a real fight?

People should have a fucking clue by now. These guys make their money on the the mystic "powers" of martial arts that people have been hypnotized into believing in, because Bruce Lee introduced SHOWMANSHIP to the movies, and he'd be happy to tell you that you don't fucking fight like that in real life.

"To beat a martial artist that has been training for 15 years, all you need to do is wrestle and box for 1 year, and he's yours."

--Bruce Lee

[QUOTE=Venn;580546]"Why would you fight someone with a knife?
WHy would you fight with 2 people?
Better yet, Why would you fight on the street??"

Well obviously you wouldn't if you could avoid it. But more often then not, if one unarmed person approaches you then a fight can be avoided.

"YOu can avoid street fights, but when the time comes of someone attacking me, I don't think of his wrists, and fingers and joint manipulation.. etc.
I think of punching him in the face, and getting control on the ground...
You need to stop watching steven seagal movies."

First off, Steven Seagal sucks and we both know that. Secondly, you don't think of wristlocks cause you don't know them. Nothing against ground control, but bjj works best in situations that can be completely avoided in real life.

"In order to grab a wristlock, you have to grapple there hand.. and if you are facing another grappler, you are pretty much fucked, you will get taked down, mounted, and sooner or later you will let go."

The skilled grappler that would take you down and mount you isn't gonna be fighting you on the street. I'm not really a fan of aikido because I practice jjj and I find it to be a less flowerly, no-nonsense version of aikido that is specifically targeted towards self-defense. Nonetheless, the concepts are the same. For some reason, mma fans tend to think that street fights will unfold like mma fights. If it does, then that means the fight could probably have been avoided altogether.

i am it's fucking stupid and a waste of money.

First off, you don't take classes if you don't enjoy it. And if you enjoy it, it is worth that much money. Secondly, traditional martial artists are less prone to get into fights than modern martial artists. That's kind of funny isn't it?
The modern martial artists that are supposedly better at defending themselves get into more fights than the traditional ones. Kind of self-defeating imo.

First off, you don't take classes if you don't enjoy it. And if you enjoy it, it is worth that much money. Secondly, traditional martial artists are less prone to get into fights than modern martial artists. That's kind of funny isn't it?
The modern martial artists that are supposedly better at defending themselves get into more fights than the traditional ones. Kind of self-defeating imo.

auss trains under a Kiai Master fyi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

auss trains under a Kiai Master fyi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

oh knows ive been caught. The secret has unfolded. The cat is out of the bag. The shit is really bout to hit the fan now. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .tumbleweed

ok so im new to this site and i say a title that said akido. I was like"hey I took that before "so i went into the forum. When i read to the bottom i notice somebody said it was worthless. I dissagree. Not to offend you but to voice my opinion. People can talk shit on here but in a real life situation next time your in a position where you have to scrap someone and there bigger than you poke them in the eye , grab there throat and squezze or bend a finger and see how they react. When i wastraining in akido we learned throws, how to put your opponent off balance, weapon defence, pressurepoints and joint locks, AND to strike your oppent when they are off ballance or immoblized. We also learned if the oppent is being carless when attacking to pop the knee.

Peace.

i took it for like a month....didnt like it

Not everyone can pick up aikido to the point where they can display it in a street fight. It takes alot of fucking up training. Almost like any other martial art.

ok so im new to this site and i say a title that said akido. I was like"hey I took that before "so i went into the forum. When i read to the bottom i notice somebody said it was worthless. I dissagree. Not to offend you but to voice my opinion. People can talk shit on here but in a real life situation next time your in a position where you have to scrap someone and there bigger than you poke them in the eye , grab there throat and squezze or bend a finger and see how they react. When i wastraining in akido we learned throws, how to put your opponent off balance, weapon defence, pressurepoints and joint locks, AND to strike your oppent when they are off ballance or immoblized. We also learned if the oppent is being carless when attacking to pop the knee.

Peace.

you need to train aikido to grab a throat, Pull a finger, and cheat?

it's not cheating vale tudo ven you noob.

it's not cheating vale tudo ven you noob.

STFU NOOB.

Not my MA of choice but I feel calling it useless isnt really fair. Certain wristlocks are perfect for a cop to gain a few seconds of control in a struggle, enough time for the other cops/security gaurds to jump on the bad guy.

read this, its very enlightening

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333

kinda an interesting quote from that thread

Funny way of looking at things. I have been training in aikido for 12 years and in Rickson Gracie BJJ for 4 years. (I also have 6 years of Okinawan Kempo training). BJJ, if you step back and look at it, is very much like aikido in philosophy. You are trying to move one step ahead of your opponent so you can submit him with as little effort as possible. BJJ techniques require the same amount of relaxation as aikido. You are relaxed until the point it's time not to be relaxed. I have quickly gone up the rank in BJJ and I believe it's mainly because of my aikido. I find them very complimentary.
One thing, Joey, have you ever tried clinching on an experienced aikidoka? Since I teach in a cross training dojo I have had people try to test the effectiveness of aikido. You may be in for a surprise.
In aikido we stress ma-ai. (Proper distance) We often defend this with strikes and kicks. This doesn't play well into a BJJ cross trainers game.
I think your rash statement is more out of lack of information than anything. Before you knock any art, I suggest you try it.
As for usefulness in NHB fights. Once again you should probably open your eyes. Sakuraba uses what has been termed a "kimura". It is a common standing lock in aikido called Hiji-kime. He used this to wear down Royce and broke Renzo's arm in consecutive Pride Fights. If it wasn't aikido, how he used it to throw Renzo, was at least, very aikido-ish.

Also, I compete in local submission jiu-jitsu tournaments and I have utilized aikido techniques with great success.


I have taught Aikido for about 18 years now, and I have trained extensively in Rickson Gracie BJJ as well with Luis Heredia. Aikido is the best art that I've see so far that is effective in it's technique and strategy when facing grapplers. It's funny - usually it's martial artists without grappling experience who tend to be closed-minded and such about BJJ, but here's a case of the opposite.

Heres an Aikido school that strives to prepare students for actual competitions which is rare in Aikido.

http://www.tomiki.org/

Aikido>All.

Wristlocks > Punches to the face.

Steven Segal > Mike Tyson.

Aikido>All.

Wristlocks > Punches to the face.

Steven Segal > Mike Tyson.

No aikido guy will actually say something like that or actually think they would win an MMA fight. After reading that thread I realize they are actually very humble and understand the purpose of their art which is to redirect violent energy and render it harmless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morihei_Ueshiba


At that moment I was enlightened: the source of budo is god's love - the spirit of loving protection for all beings... Budo is not the felling of an opponent by force; nor is it a tool to lead the world to destruction with arms. True Budo is to accept the spirit of the universe, keep the peace of the world, correctly produce, protect and cultivate all beings in nature.

Aikido, Judo and BJJ are gonna have alot of the same movesets. A complete fighter would study the soft throws as well as harder Judo style throws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morihei_Ueshiba

As Ueshiba grew older, more skilled, and more spiritual in his outlook, his art also changed and became softer and more circular. Striking techniques became less important and the formal curriculum became simpler. In his own expression of the art there was a greater emphasis on what is referred to as kokyū-nage, or "breath throws" which are soft and blending, utilizing the opponent's movement in order to throw them. Many of these techniques are rooted in the aiki-no-jutsu portions of the Daitō-ryū curriculum rather than the more direct jujutsu style joint-locking techniques.

Softer throws obviously require a different type of setup and are arguably more complex in nature. Alot of Aikido these days probably suffers from "kung fu syndrome" where the practitioners collect forms instead of practicing their art in real time.

So Aikido can teach you stuff you do not know not only in life but most likely I'm starting to believe it could be a supplement to BJJ or whatever grappling you train in.

Alot of people on these boards will change their attitudes according to what is currently popular and working in MMA but thats a very narrow close-minded viewpoint. Remember there was a time when people were saying stand up fighting didnt work at all and the only martial arts that worked or was worth training in was BJJ.

This based on a few early fight competitions, thats called looking at the small picture. This thread has actually sparked my interest a bit, I didnt know Aikido had striking for instance.

I have no problem with aikido, as long as they don't think there art is the best fighting style, and thinki they can whoop everyones ass.

But steven seagal once said that Wanderlei isn't a good fighter.
That's why I hate him.

I have no problem with aikido, as long as they don't think there art is the best fighting style, and thinki they can whoop everyones ass.

But steven seagal once said that Wanderlei isn't a good fighter.
That's why I hate him.

Agreed, Seagal is a disgrace and anyone thinking one is the best, needs their head examined.

Sorry Akido is bs..

Why go through the trouble of grabbing someone finger, or wrist, whe you can just punch, or learn JJ and gets some real battle tested moves that have been proven in an actual adrenalized fight..

we always see eye to eye brah

yeah seagal is a disgrace to aikido, but he isn't representative of all aikido practicioners. i've actually used aikido in the street and it works. the joint manipulations are especially good in a society that likes to sue everyone for anything. even if a guy attacks you, if you punch him, he'll sue. if you use wrist locks, there's no mark so there's no evidence that can land you in court.

you have to actually train in aikido, and not just for a couple of weeks, before you debate its effectiveness. you don't fight an art, you fight a fighter. a good aikidoka is a good fighter. a crappy bjj guy is a crappy fighter and vice versa.

the aikido dojo i periodically train at teaches cops and deploying soldiers. these are the people who actually have to fight in life or death situations, not drop to their backs faster than a $5 hooker and hope the ref pulls the man off him. look at MCMAP techniques the marines use. you'll find several aikido joint locks there.

black drunk>geeky white kid who 'trains'

blacks are the strongest btw

I have no problem with aikido, as long as they don't think there art is the best fighting style, and thinki they can whoop everyones ass.

But steven seagal once said that Wanderlei isn't a good fighter.
That's why I hate him.

Steven Seagal is a douche bag.

If you train alive...U'll pick up quite a few things that work...but thats the problem...almost NO aikido schools train alive.

To use Steven Segal as your aikido ambassador just shows ignorance towards the art.

Aikido is not very effective in a mma fight, but it could be a good base from a balance/positioning/footwork perspective.

But aikido is effective in a self-defense situation, not because of groin strikes, eye gouges, etc. But because of it's passive aggressive approach and ability to deal with various attacks not seen in mma.

And if wristlocks are so ineffective, the why do police and military use them all the time?

Sorry Akido is bs..

Why go through the trouble of grabbing someone finger, or wrist, whe you can just punch, or learn JJ and gets some real battle tested moves that have been proven in an actual adrenalized fight..

i completely agree ive been training jiu jitsu for a few months and destroyed a black belt in akido in a grappling match

aikido= fantasy world

something i noticed about aikido and judo and the "soft" grappling forms is that for it to work you have to be sort of vicious and fuckin hit the person hard to get them off balance to actually get the wrist lock. i mena how many videos of cop takedowns have you seen where the cop executed a wrist lock with flawless technique? all the ones i've seen have been them them straight nailing some guy and then grabbing the wrist.

another weird thing i noticed is that with judo being"the gentle way" why are all the really good guys fuckin built. like yoshida, akiyama, fedor and sokoudjo.

People, haven't you seen under siege I and II?
Seagal>all!