I've always wondered the differences between traditional JJ and BJJ. I train JJ, and sorta consider BJJ and Judo to be distilled JJ. Has anyone ever studied both JJ and BJJ?

Jujutsu is weird, I know back in the old days of Japan there were many different schools and styles, some were more grappling and some striking. Theres some people out there who have true knowledge of ancient forms sadly I am not one of them. My grandfather said over 50 years ago when he was in Japan there were still alot of people using old school jujutsu and it was real dirty shit that could mess you up.

I know when Judo was first invented that there was a grappling tournament held between all the major schools of jujutsu including Judo. Judo cleaned house due to its method of training but this was a grappling tournament not a streetfight.

I've always wondered the differences between traditional JJ and BJJ. I train JJ, and sorta consider BJJ and Judo to be distilled JJ. Has anyone ever studied both JJ and BJJ?

Ninja just gave you some good basics. Here is a link with some nice info -

http://www.kobukaijujitsu.com/hist.html

Ninja just gave you some good basics. Here is a link with some nice info -

http://www.kobukaijujitsu.com/hist.html

That first link was more ancient history - here is some info to cover the last 200 years -

http://www.kobukaijujitsu.com/2ocent.html

awesome reading^^

thanks for the links

i have a brown belt in jujutsu, and have some practice in bjj and judo.

bjj was derived from judo which was derived from jujutsu.

Basically, bjj is ground fighting, judo is throwing, and jujutsu is self defense (weapon takeaways, eye gouges, wrist locks, throws, holds, etc.)

It is not usually competitive like bjj and judo, and is often taught to police and military.

My avatar is a pic of a jujutsu kata. The guy on the left was trying to grab the guy on the rights sword, so the guy on the right breaks his wrist. He falls in this manner during practice to prevent his wrist from being broken.

I've always wondered the differences between traditional JJ and BJJ. I train JJ, and sorta consider BJJ and Judo to be distilled JJ. Has anyone ever studied both JJ and BJJ?

to say bjj and judo are distilled jj is both right and wrong.

its right in that all the techniques can be found somewhere in jj, but wrong in that you cant learn bjj and judo from jj.

jj has a different focus than bjj and judo. It is fairly well-rounded, and was taught to Samurai for use during war, and later adapted as a self-defense. Bjj would be fairly useless in a war, but jj would get smoked in a grappling competition. Even though jj is aware of things like doubleleg takedowns and the guard, its purpose nowadays is to control an attacker/s in a quick and nonviolent method.

Jujutsu is weird, I know back in the old days of Japan there were many different schools and styles, some were more grappling and some striking. Theres some people out there who have true knowledge of ancient forms sadly I am not one of them. My grandfather said over 50 years ago when he was in Japan there were still alot of people using old school jujutsu and it was real dirty shit that could mess you up.

I know when Judo was first invented that there was a grappling tournament held between all the major schools of jujutsu including Judo. Judo cleaned house due to its method of training but this was a grappling tournament not a streetfight.

youre pretty much right.

generally bjj is best for pure grappling, judo is best for throwing, jujutsu is best for selfdefense. jujutsu is also very weird in that nearly all japanese arts are in someway derived from it, and the term can really mean a lot of things.

And i can proudly say that i am one of those people who have true knowledge of ancient forms, although my knowledge is dwarfed by others, like the guy in the right of my picture. But have adapted it pretty well to wrestling, and i can wristlock just about anyone. But jujutsu is no substitute for wrestling, bjj, or judo, just like how they are no substitue for jj.

By the way, sorry i postwhore every topic about japanese jujutsu, im one of the few mma fans that study it, so i feel i have to give it more credit than is probably necessary :)

i have a friend who studies akijujitsu and he's always hating on bjj but i am a hundred percent sure that his ground game is horrible.

this has been brought up before.

traditional jiujitsu is not just grappling... its a form of judo which also includes punches and kicks actually.

brazilian jiu jitsu or BJJ is considered the best style of jiujitsu which focuses on the grappling aspect of jiu jitsu. other forms of jiujitsu tho include many different techniques that BJJ really dosnt focus on.

i don't think jj is that great at throws either. i don't think they practice active randori or any newaza phase.

i don't think jj is that great at throws either. i don't think they practice active randori or any newaza phase.

randori, sometimes. newaza, sorta, but not particularly.

Jujutsu is not ground fighting, grappling competition, or sparring. It's basic self defense concepts that are stretched out into an entire system.
The techniques used by police and military are jujutsu techniques - not great for competition, but that's not their purpose.

i have a friend who studies akijujitsu and he's always hating on bjj but i am a hundred percent sure that his ground game is horrible.

Yes his ground game is probably horrible compared to bjj. That's because only an extremely basic ground game is useful for self-defense.
Bjj and Jjj have 2 completely different purposes and they both fullfill those purposes.

i totally understand your concept. its just that my friend has a notion that he can hang in an mma match with the striking and grappling learned from his jujitsu and ninjitsu. i understand that he has knowledge of certain throws but the throws are always done in drills. its not that easy to throw without live sparring

well i dont know your friend, but if i had to guess, i would say he couldnt seeing as how remco pardoel and steve jennum were outclassed by royce gracie and marco ruas. Jjj just isnt designed for mma. That's why police learn jjj and mixed martial artists learn bjj.

I know when Judo was first invented that there was a grappling tournament held between all the major schools of jujutsu including Judo. Judo cleaned house due to its method of training but this was a grappling tournament not a streetfight.

Until the Fusen Ryu Jujutsu challenge match some years later....in which the Kodakan team got owned by Fusen Ryu ground specialists- most of whom just pulled guard and fought off their backs. Kano saw that his judo students were fish out of water on the ground, and hired the Fusen Ryu instructor to teach his students his techniques......and so was born kosen judo and judo ne-waza.

Maeda, who became a kosen judo and ne-waza specialist and later travelled to Brazil and trained the first generation of Gracies, was present at the challenge match and changed his training focus.

It was only later during the drive for Olympic status judo de-emphasised ne-waza training.

Until the Fusen Ryu Jujutsu challenge match some years later....in which the Kodakan team got owned by Fusen Ryu ground specialists- most of whom just pulled guard and fought off their backs. Kano saw that his judo students were fish out of water on the ground, and hired the Fusen Ryu instructor to teach his students his techniques......and so was born kosen judo and judo ne-waza.

Maeda, who became a kosen judo and ne-waza specialist and later travelled to Brazil and trained the first generation of Gracies, was present at the challenge match and changed his training focus.

It was only later during the drive for Olympic status judo de-emphasised ne-waza training.

wow, now this I did not know

I wish I could go back in time and learn jujutsu from all the schools during its heyday.

wow, now this I did not know

I wish I could go back in time and learn jujutsu from all the schools during its heyday.

There was some hardcore grappling in pre-war judo...body-triangles had to be banned due to split kidneys and other internal organs being crushed in competition. Crazy judoka had taken to doing daily squats by the hundred to develop a seriously offensive body triangle.[dojime-kime?] Ouch.

mastering juijitsu by renzo has interesting stuff on the historical jujutsu-judo-bjj family of ma....bjj.org too. Incidently Maeda was a gradute of the ubiquitous Tenshin Ryu jujutsu, amongst others. Really bjj was originally his own school of jujutsu born of kosen and kodakan judo, jujutsu and informed by a wealth of ring experience against catch wrestlers, folk wrestlers, boxers, savate fighters, judoka and prize fighters- Maeda-Ryu kodakan jujutsu.

Until the Fusen Ryu Jujutsu challenge match some years later....in which the Kodakan team got owned by Fusen Ryu ground specialists- most of whom just pulled guard and fought off their backs. Kano saw that his judo students were fish out of water on the ground, and hired the Fusen Ryu instructor to teach his students his techniques......and so was born kosen judo and judo ne-waza.

Maeda, who became a kosen judo and ne-waza specialist and later travelled to Brazil and trained the first generation of Gracies, was present at the challenge match and changed his training focus.

It was only later during the drive for Olympic status judo de-emphasised ne-waza training.

+rep

xhale [ADR];366546']+rep

nice one, thanks