legal and illegal things in a streetfight

[erskine777]

i was wondering, if someone tries to punch you or push you, would it be legal to break one of their limbs and beat them unconscious? it's of course all in the name of self-defense, and stuff... could you make the argument that you were just ensuring that he'd stay down and not threaten you anymore? i pray that someone with more legal experience than i shall deign to enlighten me on this confusing subject.

[Chickenjorge]

everything's legal, when you dont get caught.

so just dont get caught.

[Blunt Object]

;343755']everything's legal, when you dont get caught.

so just dont get caught.

+1 for not getting caught

[hotnewton]

;343755']everything's legal, when you dont get caught.

so just dont get caught.

So true

[Tom Stall]

if you dunno nobody from there and there are no witnesses. hit them as hard as you can

[svr01]

Yeah, groin attacks and so on are also good in a streetfight, but you will get laughed at by your friends if you win by kicking someones groin. I wouldn't keep hitting the face, you don't want to kill the guy.

[omegatron]

If the person touches(not punches) you first and you give them ample warning then you should have all the right to dismember them as long as its "self defense".

[erskine777]

unfortunately, what if there's several witnesses, like in a bar or nightclub? should i just kill the witnesses? i mean, i wouldn't MIND doing it, but that seems a little too extraneous.

[Evil]

Why would you need to street fight? Just carry a gun.

[VENDO]

Why would you need to street fight? Just carry a gun.

And umm go to prison?

[VENDO]

Just knock him out, and walk away. It looks alot cooler also.

[erskine777]

i just ask this question because a few days ago i was at the bar and there was a really annoying bastard who was really drunk, and he was walking near me and he tripped and dropped his glass, which was full of beer, on me. i know he didn't do it on purpose but i was fricking pissed. i was wondering if in terms of legality, i could say that he assaulted me with the beer glass so that i defended myself by stomping on his face. nobody else has wanted to beat the crap out of an annoying person?

[mmabiker]

put him on his ass then walk away cool as f**k

[Aiden]

I only use my dirty tactics, IE biting groing strikes, eye gouging when im in a bad spot or outnumbered..If you are stomping ass theres no need to tarnish nit with those moves but if you are losing by all means do whatever you have to, to win. I would rather win by dirty tactics then lose and be a ''fair'' fighter.

[Evil]

And umm go to prison?


I carry a gun all the time and I have never been in a street fight, I am also not in prison.

[simply]

I only use my dirty tactics, IE biting groing strikes, eye gouging when im in a bad spot or outnumbered..If you are stomping ass theres no need to tarnish nit with those moves but if you are losing by all means do whatever you have to, to win. I would rather win by dirty tactics then lose and be a ''fair'' fighter.
I only use dirty tactics also. Sometimes I go as far as biting their groins, it's pure animal with me baby

[Gumshoe]

according to Bas Rutten: dangda da dangada dang

[SolitaryIndividual]

i was hoping this thread would get some real legally correct answers

[Dr. Bob {ADR}]

If the person touches(not punches) you first and you give them ample warning then you should have all the right to dismember them as long as its "self defense".

L. O. L.


rediculous.

In most places, you have the obligation to retreat. If you have an avenue to avoid violence, you have to take it. If you don't, you're legally responsible for your actions and it won't fall under self-defense. This only doesn't apply in your home. You don't have to retreat and a whole lot more is justified as self-defense there.

If you can't get away, you can only use enough force to stop them from continuing their attack. If they throw a punch, you can use enough force to stop them from throwing a punch again. If you go past the point where they cannot attack you, you become the attacker and are not covered under "self-defense".

If at any point, you use any force that could be considered deadly force, and they haven't used deadly force against you, you're fucked. See you in jail. Stomping the head=deadly force.

That all being said, it's going to be up to some persons' judgement considering whether what you did was legal or not. 90% of the population might consider whatever you did in a fight as non-deadly force, but you might get a judge in that 10%. So do you really want to risk it?

The safest bet is to follow the continuum of force. Respond with only the level of force that was directed at you, but up one notch. If they throw a punch at you, you can throw more than one punch back. But if they grab your arm or drop a beer on you, punching them means you aren't protected by "self-defense" anymore. If they drop a beer on you and you push them away...you'll be fine.

[Dr. Bob {ADR}]

i was hoping this thread would get some real legally correct answers

How was that ^^^^^?

[beetsh]

it was wonderful bobby.

how was it for you?

[SolitaryIndividual]

;346678']How was that ^^^^^?

yeah i liked that answer ...

heres an interesting story ... my dad was on a grand jury, and he had a case come before him where two guys got into a fight and guy 1 shot guy 2 in the leg while they were wrestling around. Guy 2 eventually pulled the gun away from guy 1, and when guy 1 got up and started running away guy 2 shot him and killed him. The grand jury did not indict guy 2 and they dropped all charges against him calling it self defense. He claimed that for all he knew guy 1 was running to get another gun out of his car or to get a group of guys to come get him, so the only way he could truly protect himself was to shoot guy 1 dead right there.

this ties into what you said bob, guy 1 had already used deadly force against guy 2, justifying guy 2's use of it back.

[Dr. Bob {ADR}]

it was wonderful bobby.

how was it for you?

^^^
One of the reasons I don't post on the weekends.

[beetsh]

cos im pounding you ass?

[erskine777]

damn...not the answer i wanted to hear. that's stupid man, i don't want to wait until the other guy starts punching before i can resort to striking. but hey, i learned a new word today-continuum. what if the other guys pulls out brass knuckles or something? it's pretty obvious what his intentions are so would it then be okay to use excessive force and stuff?

[ninjashoes]

;346676']L. O. L.


rediculous.

In most places, you have the obligation to retreat. If you have an avenue to avoid violence, you have to take it. If you don't, you're legally responsible for your actions and it won't fall under self-defense. This only doesn't apply in your home. You don't have to retreat and a whole lot more is justified as self-defense there.

If you can't get away, you can only use enough force to stop them from continuing their attack. If they throw a punch, you can use enough force to stop them from throwing a punch again. If you go past the point where they cannot attack you, you become the attacker and are not covered under "self-defense".

If at any point, you use any force that could be considered deadly force, and they haven't used deadly force against you, you're fucked. See you in jail. Stomping the head=deadly force.

That all being said, it's going to be up to some persons' judgement considering whether what you did was legal or not. 90% of the population might consider whatever you did in a fight as non-deadly force, but you might get a judge in that 10%. So do you really want to risk it?

The safest bet is to follow the continuum of force. Respond with only the level of force that was directed at you, but up one notch. If they throw a punch at you, you can throw more than one punch back. But if they grab your arm or drop a beer on you, punching them means you aren't protected by "self-defense" anymore. If they drop a beer on you and you push them away...you'll be fine.

I agree with this and I also don't agree with this. As far as I know theres no law that says you must respond with enough force to stop a second hit. I don't know the law at all really though so you might be right.

Its my experience that if theres a fight the person who touched the other person "started it" and is the one who is liable.

I do agree though if you respond to someone punching you with a gun you are going to be fucked but if you respond to someone punching you by punching them back and you accidently kill them most likely you will be ok as long as you did everything in your power to prevent the fight from starting in the first place.

It really comes down to what the judge or jury decides though, they will pretty much put themselves in your shoes the best they can and decide whether or not you did the right thing based on their personal feelings.

I have heard of people getting away with practically murder and I have also heard of people getting long sentences for complete bullshit reasons.

Someone I know was jumped by two guys, he pulled out a knife and stabbed one and got 2 years for it. He didn't kill the guy but he did "twist" the knife and thats what it came down to when they were deciding if he should get time or not.

[Jim Persons]

I agree with this and I also don't agree with this. As far as I know theres no law that says you must respond with enough force to stop a second hit. I don't know the law at all really though so you might be right.

Its my experience that if theres a fight the person who touched the other person "started it" and is the one who is liable.

I do agree though if you respond to someone punching you with a gun you are going to be fucked but if you respond to someone punching you by punching them back and you accidently kill them most likely you will be ok as long as you did everything in your power to prevent the fight from starting in the first place.

It really comes down to what the judge or jury decides though, they will pretty much put themselves in your shoes the best they can and decide whether or not you did the right thing based on their personal feelings.

I have heard of people getting away with practically murder and I have also heard of people getting long sentences for complete bullshit reasons.

Someone I know was jumped by two guys, he pulled out a knife and stabbed one and got 2 years for it. He didn't kill the guy but he did "twist" the knife and thats what it came down to when they were deciding if he should get time or not.

It's not the "law" written down, but when your case gets tried, they base their judgement on whether or not you did what a "reasonable person" would do in that situation. Which gets totally fucked. Some people think a reasonable person would never fight back and that's where people get fucked for a simple response, like "twisting" the knife. Usually, if you don't damage them more than they damage you, you'll look more like a "reasonable person" at trial.

Not that it's practical at all, but that's the image you want to portray if possible.

As for the touching thing, in NY, if you touch someone, it's harassment. If someone touches you, and you beat them down, they've harassed you and you've committed harassment in the second degree against them...so you're both guilty, but yours is worse. They've committed a violation and will get a ticket, and you've committed a misdemeanor and will get arrested.

I dunno how it is elsewhere. NY is fucking strict.

[beetsh]

the trick is dissapearing after your crimefighting. like batman

[ninjashoes]

the trick is dissapearing after your crimefighting. like batman

lmfao

*reps

[SmokinGunz]

WHEN I FIRST JOINED THE ARMY, I GOT IN A FIGHT WITH THIS GUY. I DROPPED HIM, AND I WENT TO JUMP ON HIM AND HE WRAPPED HIS LEGS AROUND ME...AT THAT TIME I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT A GUARD WAS...I WENT TO STRIKE AND HE MANAGED TO GRAB ME AND PUT ME IN A GUILLOTINE. I BIT THE $#!% OUT OF HIM, AND HE SCREAMED OUT LIKE A B!%@#. HE LET ME GO AND I PROCEEDED TO POUND HIM OUT....MORAL OF THE STORY IS THE WORDS ILLEGAL AND STREET FIGHT CAN NEVER GO TOGETHER :)

[rebornpro]

yeah knocking him down and walking away is the ultimate insult

[GlimmerMan]

mods you may delete this post.thanks.

[beetsh]

the chances of you defeating two armed attackers who really mean to fuck you up is damn unlikely. the chances of you even seeing the weapon before its in you are slim.

deadly force? wtf is that. in a fight you hit the guy as fast and as hard as you can in an adrenaline filled 30 seconds. the decision to pull out some special move death trick has never happened with me. neither has the thought about hitting softer in case i kill somebody. its automatic pilot all the way in these sorts of situations.

the only times i have ever been in a fight in the street are the times when i've been too much of an asshole to walk - or run- away.

the trick to all street situations is to avoid them. dont walk about in a fucking daze not paying attention, dont look like a victim and dont be too proud to run.

*waits for scenarios involving crippled mothers who cant run and special neck breaking moves learned in special forces training.*

[ninjashoes]

For the most part if you don't let other people suck you in to their toughguy bullshit, streetfights shouldnt be a problem. Cases of muggings and shit like that, your never gonna have to worry about charges.

Really noone should have to worry about legal implications of a streetfight and if they do chances are they could have walked away or acted differently. Not saying the court system works 100% of the time or anywhere even close.

[aussjj]

hit the eyes, groin, and throat cause they dont really cause damage, its just incapacitating, but you should avoid any fight if you can.

[SmokinGunz]

For the most part if you don't let other people suck you in to their toughguy bullshit, streetfights shouldnt be a problem. Cases of muggings and shit like that, your never gonna have to worry about charges.

Really noone should have to worry about legal implications of a streetfight and if they do chances are they could have walked away or acted differently. Not saying the court system works 100% of the time or anywhere even close.

I WOULDN'T BE SURE ABOUT THAT...A FRIEND OF MINE BEAT THE BRAKES OFF THIS CRACKHEAD THAT WAS TRYING TO ROB HIM WITH A KNIFE. THE COPS SEEN HIM BEATING THE SHIT OUT THE CRACKHEAD, AND THEY ARRESTED MY HOMIE, EVEN AFTER HE TOLD THEM WHAT HAPPENED. THEY CHARGED HIM WITH A FELONY ASSAULT CAUSE HE FUCKED THE CRACKHEADS FACE ALL UP. MY HOMIE BASICALLY IS THE ONE THAT GOT F#@&ED IN THE END.