I heard about this on Bullshido.com or whatever that sites called anyway they have a ton of stuff on which traditional arts schools are BS and which teach you effective MA's

the problem is you cant simulate self-defense style martial arts through competion.

disarms, wristlocks, and police control type stuff work great against a real attacker, but not against a solid stance and strategy.

bullshido didnt understand this, thats why i left.

Take what police and military do:
How well are they gonna perform in mixed martial arts? How can you design a competition to simulate their performance?
You cant, but their techniques are still best for dealing with real situations in the most civilized manner possible.

I heard it involved disarming an opponent with a fake knife or something like that

possibly, but if the guy with the knife was being smart and competitve, then he would always win. If he was being furious and stupid, the other guy would have a chance. So it would probably be judged on form with both guys cooperating wiht one another. You cant really transform self-defense into a 1v1 competition like boxing, judo, mma, etc.

you also cant spar with self-defense because your opponent will react in such a way that techniques that are great on the street may not be in a sparring match, which is why learning it is a double-edged sword.

Many techniques in aikido, for example, are useful for self-defense and controlling an attacker, but others may be impractical because it is somewhat based on theory.

To compensate, these arts try to simulate self-defense situations without being competitve. In Seibukan Jujutsu, which has some aikido, we sometimes have to simulate attacks.
For example: The attacker will try not to attack like a controlled student who is sparring, and instead like a real attacker. The defender will also use techniques without actually hurting the attacker, so sometimes the attacker has to play along to not get hurt. Hopefully they wont play along too much.

This has always been a problem in self-defense, but it is the way it must be. Wristlocks, hammerlocks, groin-attacks, eye-attackers, etc. are all great for controlling an attacker, but not great for practicing in real time because they are dangerous. They are also not nearly as effective against someone who tries and be defensive, which is why wristlocks are rare in mma and common in self-defense. Just gotta deal with it and really pay attention to the concepts so you dont learn anything wrong.

I THINK Tomiki Aikido does comps, and that is why they are somewhat "shunned" by the Aikido community. Not 100% though.

very hard to pull off in an aderenaline rushed paced fight.

the problem is you cant simulate self-defense style martial arts through competion.

disarms, wristlocks, and police control type stuff work great against a real attacker, but not against a solid stance and strategy.

bullshido didnt understand this, thats why i left.

You seem to be under the illusion that being able to apply a wristlock to someone who allows you to do so is a more useful skill than being able to punch someone that is actively trying to hit you and come out on top.

There is competitive Aikido where one has a rubber knife and the other tries not to get hit and throw and disarm the opponent.

You seem to be under the illusion that being able to apply a wristlock to someone who allows you to do so is a more useful skill than being able to punch someone that is actively trying to hit you and come out on top.

Naw you misunderstand me.
Aikido, which imo is a fancy, very theoretical version of Japanese Jujutsu, is a self-defense. Often the students are too cooperative amongst each other. But when they are not, like they shouldn't be, then you can learn how to use these techniques which are effective, politically friendly, and safe for a street environment. These are the same techniques used by police, military, samurai, and women self-defense. In 1v1 competition, they are more difficult to perform than on the street because the opponent will be very cautious, careful, and composed, unlike on the street. Wristlocks, disarming, etc. are very effective for street defense but not against professional athletes, which is why arts like Aikido are nearly impossible to simulate through competition. Also to note as that quickly applied wristlocks can be dangerous, as well as other techniques taught by these arts such eye gouging, neck striking, groin kicking, and finger bending.

We do randori in aikido, and it's pretty rough where we train. At the black belt level we throw four guys on one (any more than that and they all get in one another's way, so it's actually easier) and it's basically a free for all. The idea is to keep moving and fighting no matter what. Obviously, shots to the groin, eye gouges, joint breaks, elbows, etc. are off limits for practice, but we do train them and simulate them as closely as possible with safety in mind. There's no rule that says an aikidoka can't use them in the street.

Aussjj, you're right. There is a lot of theory in aikido, and even I scratch my head when I see some aikido instructors show some techniques that are outright ridiculous. At my dojo and others there's a movement to simplfy traditional aikido moves for street-effectiveness. Some techniques that look far-fetched to the uninitiated actually do work when you've trained them, but others are BS. It's simply a matter of drilling them and keeping what works and tossing out what doesn't. So we actually do live sparring on non-compliant training partners who really fight the techniques.

As for not having competitions, we do that out of tradition. O-Sensei shunned the idea of hurting someone for a plastic trophy or a few bucks or simply to prove oneself. There are some "all styles welcome" competitions that will turn you away if you do aikido though because of the small-joint manipulation and hard falls.

fuck that just do what the police do if ur looking for wrsitlocks and shit...not sure what style it is...pretty sure it isnt aikido...I mena they share moves and stuff...but they dont have an aikido stance etc.

It's a myth that police use wrist locks, hammer locks on a day to day basis - yes some departments in the dark ages still teach that stuff but ask any cop and they will tell you that none of it works against someone using assaultive resistance or in plain English - that stuff doesn't work in a fight.

The comment that you don't see wrist locks in MMA because they don't work against someone who is being defensive is bizare and quite sad really. Sad that grown adults can be so gullible.

Take a close look at the training methods of traditional jujitsu, aikido etc and you will see that they are nothing more than choreographed demonstrations (dressed up in the all too common "we can't use too much resistance because it is too dangerous" lie). Sorry but the reason 'instructors' keep telling people this is because they are deluded through being brain washed (which the cult of traditional martial arts tends to do) or because they know deep down it won't work when someone fights back without choreography as they do in a real fight.

Wrist locks and all those fancy standing arm locks etc appear to work to those who do not know how to train properly and/or have never been in a fight.

By the way, I was that gullible person too and trained to black belt in both arts. Sadly I know that those years of training were BS and an exercise in false confidence.

A couple of months of fighting in the alive delivery systems (boxing, thai, judo, greco and BJJ) soon knocked some reality sense in to me. I have had my fair share of real fights in the street (job related) and none of that stuff I learned in jujitsu or aikido worked.

I suspect that this post is futile, but if one person 'gets it' then that's cool.

And my comments go for all 'styles' of traditional jujitsu and aikido and all the other goofy traditional martial arts who's training methods do not resemble the activity they are supposed to be preparing for.

No offense meant or intended. And nothing wrong with those arts unless you are being told or are telling people that they are for self defense. Then there is a problem.